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Welcome again to another bonus very special episode we have coming up today on the Get a 6-Figure Job You Love podcast. So today, we are interviewing another one of my curriculum students, Misha, who is going to talk to you about valuing yourself. And how she was able to value herself right into an amazing position that she loves. And a 50% increase in salary bonuses and everything altogether. it’s going to be a great interview. So stay tuned.
Hey there. Welcome to the Get a 6-Figure Job You Love podcast. I’m your host, Natalie Fisher. I’m a certified career mindset coach who also happens to want to skip all the BS and get to what it really takes to create real results for you in your career. On this podcast, you will create real mindset shifts that will lead to big results and big changes in your career and your income. No fluff here. If you want to get a six-figure job you love, and create real concrete results in your industry, and make a real impact, you’re in the right place. Are you ready? Let’s go.
All right, here we are today again with another episode of the podcast, with my amazing client, Misha, who’s going to share all about her journey. Misha, please go ahead and introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about yourself and where you were when you joined.
Sure. First of all, thanks for having me. It’s an honor to be here and I’m so excited to be a success story. Me in a nutshell, I’m a program manager. I’m an operations program manager. I work in tech. My career journey was a little different because when I first got out of college 20 years ago, I actually was working in theater. So operations and production management backstage in theater. So did that for are just under 10 years.
And then, since that isn’t the most lucrative career, as I’m sure many people know, got into doing tech. And doing sales for tech, and then getting into operations for tech. And following into this career, but also realizing it’s the skills that I’ve had and always have had. Let’s see, I came to work with this program because I knew that I always had the skills. But I was always feeling like I was hitting against something that I wasn’t able to communicate it.
So if I was going into interviews or talking about raises in tech, people would say, “Well, you didn’t work in tech,” or, “You were working in something else. So that doesn’t count.” And I feel like I just spent years of just, “Well, I guess that doesn’t count.” I even went and got an MBA to be like, “That will make it count. That will show them that I know how to talk the talk,” which has helped. But it wasn’t like it just magically fixed things. Because then I finished my MBA, and that didn’t help.
It didn’t just magically fix or mean that I got a promotion or anything. And it really wasn’t until I made that commitment to, “Okay, fine. I’ve been getting the emails from Natalie for years.” I went back to look and see. I think I’ve had you on my radar for years since 2017. And I’m just always getting those emails and always just seeing, “Oh, maybe. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.”
And finally, I was like, “Okay, I’m going to do it.” I got to the point in my current job that I wasn’t going to where I needed to be. I was getting interviews, but wasn’t getting offers. So I need to make that next step.” And what you were saying, especially in those emails and these podcasts, was just speaking to me. And so I finally just went, “Okay, this is an investment. It’s an investment in me.”
I’ve hired a coach before and it was okay, but just what you did really just spoke to me. So I was just like, “I’m going to make an investment and I think it’s going to pay off.” And it has, so you [crosstalk 00:03:42].
So excited to talk about that. Yeah, thank you so much. Okay. That’s a really interesting background you come from. I didn’t know that. That’s awesome, because I think a lot of people have the same thoughts as you like, “Oh, this doesn’t count. This doesn’t count.” And if people tell you that, it cements that in. And really, it all counts, right? So [crosstalk 00:04:02].
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And now when I talk about it in interviews to other people, I bring it up. I bring it up as a skill like, “This is what sets me apart.” I was used to doing giant Broadway-style shows with people everywhere and seeing big pictures. And I’m able to tell that story as an asset. As opposed to, “Oh, that other thing I did,” that I embarrassed by.
Yeah. What a difference.
Huge difference.
Totally, yeah. So I guess you answered the next question a little bit. How do you look at those challenges now? But now versus before? So now you use your past as a strength, versus as something you might have been embarrassed about. Any other things that you came in with hesitancy and now are looking at in a completely different way?
Yeah. I think just talking about strengths and just talking about me in general. I always kind of kept it in my mind of, “I’m not a good storyteller.” I have other family members or a great storytellers, who get around and I just like to listen. Because I did theater, I was backstage, right? I wasn’t the actor in front. I was the one wearing black all the time. I was backstage with the headset. So I really had to get around that … I had to get over that because I work in corporate America.
A lot of the training, they even give you development training of just, it’s about storytelling. And you really have to get past that and over that, because I think, especially women, have this idea of talking about yourself as bad. Or we’ve all been in those meetings where usually some guy’s going on and on and on about himself. And everybody’s going to politely smile and eye roll. And we don’t want to be that person.
How do we be able to talk about ourselves and what we’re working on, either to other people in an interview situation, or even just for work? It’s one of those things that is required now for getting ahead in corporate. Telling stories. And being able to tell stories, whether it’s about yourself, or your team, or something, has to be a skill that you need to work on. Even if it’s hard, you have to work on it.
Yeah, and you mastered it. You got it down. What do you think the main shifts were that you made that went from, “Oh, I don’t want to be that person who’s arrogant and going on about myself,” to, “Oh, I do have this really valuable stuff to share with people”? And was able to successfully share it.
Yeah. It’s really just turning off that little voice in your head that’s like, “Nobody wants to hear this. Why are you still talking?” Hand the mic back. And then you’re just like, “Eh … ”
Yeah, I call it the asshole brain. The inner critic. A lot of clients have different names for it. But yes, it’s totally that. So-
And then, to show sometimes you need to be able to talk about what you do and not just show it. Because I think that’s where I was just living. And I was like, “Can’t they just see how good I am? Can’t they just know how much work I do? Why don’t they just see it?” Why don’t I just go to my boss’s office and be like, “See?” And they go, “I don’t know what you did.”
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s something I’ve heard, like you’re not alone there. A lot of people have said, “Well, I feel like my work should speak for itself.”
Yeah. It just doesn’t. [crosstalk 00:07:06].
No it doesn’t. So what do you think the biggest fear you had to overcome to finally say, “Yes,” and make that investment in yourself and sign up for the program was? The biggest fear that you had to overcome, what would you say that was?
Yeah, I just think it was so internal. I think it was when I just thought I was going to learn to do this and it would fail. I thought I would pay this money and it wouldn’t really pay off. I had done coaching before and it was kind of okay. And that part of you is even scared of succeeding like, “Oh my God. What if I do
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this?” I start my new job next Monday and I’m mildly excited and mildly terrified at the same time like, “Oh my God-”
Totally normal.
“What if I’m great?”
Totally normal.
What do I tell them?
I have a client right now who’s in an inaction because she’s afraid that if she actually gets the job, then what, right? So that’s just the next level. And you have lifetime access in the program, so you’ll be able to come back and get coaching on all of that. So, great. Thank you for sharing that. And so what specific results improvements did you experience from the program tangibly and intangibly? So, emotionally and then in physical, how that shows up in your life now?
Sure. I think a lot of it, I like the way that the program is structured, where it starts off with, “We’re going to start with you and your confidence. Then, we’ll get into interviewing and stuff like that.” Because I saw that as what was holding me back with kind of me. And so I liked how it started that way. It also pressured me to do more work on that me work. And I highly recommend working in tangent with your program is getting yourself whatever additional support you need.
That help for me, I have therapist that I talk to, to really just … And I would talk to her about this like, “Why is this so hard? What is going on that is so difficult for me that this is so hard to be able to talk well about myself and this?” What are those expectations that obviously Natalie’s not going to get to, but someone else is going to really dive deeper into having discover what those things holding me back are?
And I liked that it started with that. Because no amount of anything later about, “Here, write your email this way,” or, “Try to negotiate that way,” wasn’t going to get me where I needed. Because that’s where I had seen other coaching I had, had was really focused on that, right? “Email this way and say something this way.” And it’s like, “Okay.” But it didn’t really get to the meat of it. Didn’t really start-
The root of the problem. Yeah. I’m so glad you mentioned that, because that’s called action-line coaching. It’s like, tell you what to do. And as you know, in the program, there’s a lot of how to say things too. But it has to start with the root cause of the problem.
Absolutely. Yeah, I just really just appreciated that. It was just like, “All right, this is where it starts. This is where I need to just face … This is the hard work.”
Yeah. Yeah, because a lot of people, they do struggle with that intentional self-confidence piece. And if you ask them to list all the things that they can’t do or that they’re not good at, that will be really easy for them. When you start asking them about the opposite, they’re like, “Oh, I haven’t really put that much thought into this before,” or, “Oh, what do I say?”
So yeah, I’m so glad you brought that up. It’s such an important foundational piece of the program, which is why I think that the successes are so high. And that everything moves faster for people because they do start with that root cause. Instead of trying to solve the wrong problem, which is how do I say this to differently? Or how do I write this email differently?” Yeah.
Or, “If I could just say it this way, that will change,” or, “If I just did this, that will change.” It’s like, no, no root cause.
Yeah. Yeah. Or if I just get my MBA, that will make me legitimate. Or if I do just go get this other … Yeah, all those are surface-level problems and the internal problem, the root cause really is the thing that needs to be tackled, which I don’t think there’s enough of. But yeah, you’re living proof of having not avoided that. Because a lot of people want to avoid that, because it’s uncomfortable too.
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Yeah. And then, what I really liked in the program was the focus on the interview of just, come back to the value. Come back to your value. And get away from the trying to impress. I can go back in my mind and, I want to just jostle myself. I’d been on some amazing interviews with amazing companies. And I just remember sitting there acting like a complete alien, trying to be impressive or, “Why don’t they like me?” Or, “I’ll say this, or, “I’ll say that.” Or God knows what I was saying.
And then, afterwards, it was like, what alien just took over my body? Then, what do you know? I didn’t get the job. And I just really like your point of, “No, no, circle back to your value. Just keep talking about your value. And making it a friend. And being friendly and stuff,” which I naturally am. But being friendly in that showing-your-value way, and not trying to be like, “You’ll like me if I do this.”
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And I think this is a good time to mention also that you had been doing a lot of really valuable work. Maybe not in the capacity of the official title with the official salary. But do you want to talk a little bit about that? Because that was already there, but then you up-leveled in how you were able share and then communicate it.
Yeah. So a lot of my career, if I look back on it, I started at the bottom. I started the intern or I started as a temp worker. And then, I always was doing more and more. And always told, “Wow, you do such great work. You do such great work.” And slowly moving up. So I was constantly having to justify what I was doing. And never really being at that level that I should’ve been at. But I was always doing that work. And back at that conversation before it was like, “People … Can’t they just see how I’m doing well?”
But I didn’t know how to really articulate, “This is what I’m doing. This is the money. This is how much it’s helped us and this is what it’s doing well.” Then, when I finally got to where I could talk about that in my previous role, it wasn’t getting receptive. And I realized that this isn’t the place that’s going to receive that. Maybe this isn’t my audience. So it’s finding that balance of, “Wait, I know I’m doing good work. If you can’t see that, I guess I’m in the wrong place.”
And then, how not to get personal, because I remember being in one-on-ones with my managers, in tears, like “I’m doing the work. What is going on?” And it’s just like, but if they’re not seeing that, then it’s time to find someone who will.
Exactly. Yeah. And you were astute enough to notice that. And I like to call it, you’re the best package, but at the wrong address.
Oh, that’s fantastic. I love that, because it’s really hard, because I’m like, “But I’m doing what you’re saying. Why isn’t it working?” Because in your emails, it says, “This is why you got the interview, but that the job,” or, “Why you’re not getting your promotions.” I love that. That you’re the best package but you’re just at the wrong place. It’s really-
Yeah. And it wasn’t your fault. You just had to notice, and now you’re at the right place.
Yeah.
Yeah. So would you say it was worth time, worth your investment to have the result that you now have, which we’ll get into, for having taken that leap and invested in the program?
Oh, 100%. Oh my gosh, yeah. I’ve been already recommending it.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, because when I notified my greater team that I was leaving, some people reached out to me. And one of my colleagues even said, “Oh, I’m excited for you. Your next thing sounds really good. I would do it if I had the guts.” And that was her words. I’m like, “Sweetheart, you’ve got the guts. You could do it.” And I recommended you. I was like, “Here, just go do this.”
I’m not trying to advocate people leaving the company, because she was talking more even about just getting a promotion. But I did mention, it was like, “After a while, you look around. And if no one around
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you was really being promoted on your team, maybe it’s the culture of the team and not you.” Because other teams, I saw where people were moving, and growing, and shifting. And why aren’t we doing that? So I recommended that for her. As I recommended, I mentioned the book, You Are a Badass, which I just think is great.
I love it too. Yeah, it was really good.
Because that idea of open yourself up and just imagine the world you want. And just bring it to you. But you need a few months. It takes a while and it’s hard and-
It takes some time for it to catch up. For the external to catch up with what you’re now doing internally. But when you start thinking differently, it matches. Yeah. [crosstalk 00:15:25].
But it’s totally matched. It’s fantastic. I think of just that value of that. Also, just your assistance. I really appreciated that you helped me a little when I got an offer. I did reach out to Natalie. I don’t know if I should say that you did this. But you did help me a little bit, craft that email. Well, I crafted it. And you’re like, “Move that.” So as far as a service right there, that was 100% ROI. I think you [crosstalk 00:15:48] right there.
No, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s fantastic. Also, your ability to ask for help, and step up, and get what you needed. That’s a big part of the program is people need to post in the group. They need to reach out and get the assistance that they need. So that they can get the results too. So yeah. And so what do you think, if there is, a key that sealed the deal for that job offer for you? Was it a key thought, or a key mindset or approach that you could share?
I think it’s just, I wound up interviewing with the hiring manager, her manager, and then her boss. So the three. And just keeping, just consistent, that value. And consistent of, like I said again, about owning my past. Because before, I think … Because I was a little scared to talk about my past being in a different industry. Which I know a lot of people are always worried about, “Oh, but I did this before and I want to do something else,” which was hard. Because I had been in interviews where the reason I didn’t get the job because I, quote, didn’t have the experience.
But I had the passion and the commitment to say how this was relevant. And I think that’s what hit me of why I got the job. I could just tell that consistent story. I should say that there were two jobs that were open at this company that I’m going to be working at. One was very similar to what I had been doing. I could’ve stepped in. And the other one was kind of peripheral of doing.
And I talked the hiring manager because we’ve had a good rapport. And said, “So, curious? Which one are you thinking about? Because right now, I’m on the one that’s a little different. Why would shouldn’t I have this one?” And she said, “Yes, I think that one would be easier for you. But that one seems like it would be easier to fill. And you look like you’re better for a challenge.” I was like-
Nice. Part of you is like, “Yes.” And part of you is like, “I’m terrified.”
Yes, 100%. It’s a lot like the other one. I’m going to lock in and look good. And this one’s like, “Oh, boy.” But it also lent to my having a justification for when I got the offer to say, “Hey, thought we were going to do a little bit more, because I’m a little bit more special.” And they took it. I mean, I’m getting paid … I had never gone over that $100K threshold on a job. I had never been able to break it, even though I knew that people elsewhere were.
And with this one, not only I beat it, I went over like 30% more. It’s like, it’s almost a 50% increase if you include my stock. It’s just been great of just being able to consistently speak the value. And also, that little bit, “I’m checking you out too.” And so you don’t have that sense of neediness in an interview.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because you’re like, “Well, if you don’t want me, someone else will.” And that’s where that whole work that you put in, the foundational, work of doing the intentional self-
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confidence exercise always grants you back into that. That doesn’t go away. That doesn’t change. And now it’s just about navigating that on the outside. But you did a wonderful job.
Thank you.
So what were some of the main moments of insight that you had into how to move forward productively? Because we know it’s a process. We know that not everything always works out. So what were some of those key milestones that you went through to get yourself now to the final result?
Because I was doing a lot of interviewing over a span of like six month months. So I was constantly reviewing just the different sections of that phase that I was in. But as far as key milestones were just going through the videos, which I would listen to in my car. So turn it away, so I couldn’t watch it. But just listen to in my car.
And then there was sometimes one that was like, “I need to listen to that again,” because that’s what I need to hear about what that is of … but, “Oh, that was good. I’ll listen to that again on the way home.” I’m trying to … Of course, I’ve gone blank about what’s the specifics of, because I think I found that it would change depending on where my head was in that process. So sometimes-
Yeah, totally. I can recall a few because we coached a little bit [crosstalk 00:19:56]. But the one where you were in the interviewing process and then you were worried about losing momentum. And then, realizing that you are actually attracting higher-quality opportunities as you went.
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:20:10] of going back. Yeah, so that’s when I would go back and go listen to that again. Go listen to this thing again. Because it was hard. It was a long slog. Because I was applying for internal positions … I was working for a great company. I loved my company. Absolutely loved it. Just, my manager and I weren’t aligned. And my company requires, if you start internally interviewing, you have to tell your manager, which I’ve giving them feedback that you shouldn’t have to do. Because then, my manager basically stopped giving me work to do for six … for several months. And just made it a little bit harder for me.
So just keeping up that momentum, because I would go on these interviews. And you give a lot. Your styling of interviewing is energetic because you’re giving a lot. Not in a showy way, but just because you’re there [crosstalk 00:20:58]. You’re also meeting really cool people. I just met some really great people, which is what I really liked about all those different interviews.
But also I was getting, “Sorry, but we’re not going with you.” [crosstalk 00:21:09] all of them. It’s funny. I look back and it was like, I feel like I interviewed so many things, but I think it might have been six, which isn’t that many.
Yeah, it’s important to point that out because someone will say, “So many.” And it’s like, well, how many is that actually? And six isn’t that many. Yeah.
Yeah. It’s not that many. It was just, they were drawn out. They would just months. One interview loop of three months long. But it wasn’t just six interviews, six positions. And each one was like three or four interviews per position. So maintaining that just enthusiasm while other things are going on.
And your experience of interviewing changed, I feel like, because I feel like you said … I think you mentioned at one point that you did hate interviewing.
Yeah.
And dread it. And then, you got to the point where you were meeting cool people and enjoying the process.
Yeah. Yeah, I-
What do you think shifted there for how you were able to do that?
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I’m trying to remember [crosstalk 00:22:02].
But that’s pretty huge. That’s pretty huge. Because now when you interview again or you’re going to get promoted, that’s all going to be a lot different for you.
100%. Yeah, because it’s funny. I remember, because I said that I used to get your emails for many years, that would just come. And I distinctly remember I used to pin one on the top of my Hotmail that was … I think the subject was something like, “Do you hate interviewing?” I had that pinned on the top and I just looked at it like, “Oh, I do. I don’t want to do it. I don’t want it to do it.”
And then, finally, when I did it, I had since unpinned that. But just how the training just keeps rehashing of, “Just talk about you. Talk about the other person. Just get away from this showiness of fear of, are they going to like me?” I think we all resort back to elementary school playground, right?
Totally, like, “Approve of me, please. Please.”
I think we all just go back there.
[crosstalk 00:22:59] with me.
Yeah, so that’s where that came from. And now it’s just like, “Okay.” And it’s just really a matter of being able to remember what it is you want to talk about. I don’t know how well I’ll do of when we go back to in-person interviews. Because I really like having online interviews. Because what you don’t see is I have two other screens. I have my notes that tell me to, sorry, about when telling a story, do the situation, the action, the results, and then what it did.
And then, I have a list of, “These are the things I did.” So even though I don’t have the whole story memorized … That’s what always another thing I was always worried about. I need to have a story memorized about each thing. Instead, I would just have a list of, “Here’s eight projects that I know I did.” So if they asked a question, I could be like, “Oh yeah.” So I find that actually really helpful. I’m not looking forward to going back to in person, because I guess I just need a quick little cheat sheet on that because-
That’s funny. You should say that. Because I’ve had so many people say, “I’m better in person. I can’t do the Zoom. And here you are saying, “I like the Zoom better.”
Yeah, I used to love phone interviews over personal interview, because I just like to be able to have my notes. That’s just me. So yeah, you got to just do what works for you, because I like taking notes and typing. I type fast. But now when I have those kind of things, I set up the stories just loosely in my mind. And have that list to stimulate. So [crosstalk 00:24:28].
Yeah. That’s a pretty big win as well, just going from thinking you have to have this whole thing memorized and putting a lot of pressure on yourself, to just having some key points that you could look at. And be like, “Oh yeah, I can talk about that.” That’s huge. And frees you all up from having to cram all this information in and regurgitate it perfectly, because that is not happening anyway.
Yeah, because I used to think those stories … I used to think, “How are I going to know about these stories. They’re going to judge me on my storytelling.” Or, “How am I going to have a story that’s going to matter for each time.” Then, for the first few interviews, it was a little hard. Because I found that little voice in my head being like, “Where’s my story going? What’s happening?”
And then, realizing, “Okay, just remember to about situation. This is it. This is the result. And then circle it back. What’s interesting.” And it’s nice because you see on the interviewers face like, “Oh” and then they just-
Yeah. You can see the difference in how people respond to you when you’re doing it like that. Yeah, totally shifted completely.
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Instead of, “Then, I did this and … ” Because then, people are concerned. Then you-
Because you get nervous, and then they get nervous for you. And it’s just uncomfortable. Yeah, for sure. So-
It’s also very, I think, telling when you’re interviewing people, do they like your stories? It’s like dating, right? Is there a good rapport?
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you’re gauging how you feel about them in the same way. Yeah. So what do you think made the program successful for you specifically? What do you think are some of the ways that you implemented? I know you mentioned listening in your car worked for you. What are some of the things that you did specifically that you think made it successful?
Because obviously, if somebody signs up and they don’t come and do any of the work, they’re not going to get the success. So would you talk a little bit about your strategy for making it successful for you?
Sure. Yeah, for me, just doing how little could I do, that’s going to be helpful? So that was a lot of-
Great question to ask.
What could I do? Because I’ll admit, I didn’t do all the worksheets and all the things. Because that’s [crosstalk 00:26:29].
You don’t have to do all of it. Many people tell me they didn’t do the whole thing, and then they got the result. Because it’s not about the quantity of work. It’s about the little shifts that you have.
Absolutely, the little shifts and then that repetition of hearing it again in different ways like, “That’s what I want.” So what worked for me, again, as I said, is just listening to the videos in my car. It’s also, too, a matter of just being the right time. Are you ready to receive it? And the coaching, and just be willing to go to the coaching sessions and hear it out. And listen to other people, who are often having similar experiences.
And now I go to the coaching sessions and I hear the other people. I hear that they’re in where I was before. And listening to them with just a lot of compassion of, “Oh, I was there before. I remember that. I’m so glad I’m not there anymore.”
[Crosstalk 00:27:24].
It keeps you going. Just keep going. Yeah, through the path, just keep swimming. So it’s just-
Yeah, absolutely. And knowing that you’ll get there. Trust the process.
Exactly. And then, that and really taking advantage of the 101 coaching we had, or reaching out. I like that you make yourself really available. Because I think, when I did get an offer, I was like, “Oh my God.” Yeah, I came to you. I was like, “I got an offer. Is this a good response?” I didn’t come in with, “Tell me what to do.” It was like, “This is … ” I actually went back to the materials being like, “How am I supposed to respond to an offer?” And then looked at the PDFs and tried to-
Yeah. And that’s the best kind of coaches is when somebody coaches themselves or gets the information. And then, say, “This is what I’ve come up with. Can you help me upgrade this or improve it?” The best mentality, I think, to have is to do it how you did it. And the other thing I wanted to mention was some people think they have to go through step by step, do every little thing. And that it’s going to take a long time. But you didn’t do any of that and you the results. So did you kind of jump around? How did you decide what video you were going to watch that day?
I kind of went through everything. And then, if something was particularly just of interest to me, I would go back and listen. Especially, after I’d gone everything through once. And then, I would, “Oh, right. What do I need to hear again? What was that thing about how to negotiate?” I loved your topic on the negotiating, because I’ve taken several negotiating class. And I just love your thing of, “Never argue.”
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Just, “Yeah, you’re right. Oh my gosh. Sure.” I found myself doing that in my HOA meeting, because arguing really helps with them and [crosstalk 00:29:03].
It’s great because you diffuse any attention. It’s not pressuring anybody. It’s just having this conversation. But yeah, that’s a tactic I learned from, I think, a book I read somewhere. It’s like, “Always agree with them first and then introduce your point.” It’s magic, really. Yeah. So what will you use, do you think, moving forward, going in to your new role?
Just maintaining that value and not trying to be like, “Oh, are they going to like me? Oh, are they going to like me?” And just remember, you’re here to bring a value. That’s what they wanted. And just-
Know you can do it. Yeah.
And then, just keep that more high-level way of working and way of thinking about yourself. What I’m really looking forward to is just getting away from that feeling like I’m starting low or starting small and have to be that go-getter. And maybe they’ll like me. I’m just doing my job. And I know what it is. Because when I interviewed, I asked every single person similar questions. And I can’t remember if it was you that gave me this question or if I found it elsewhere that was basically …
So the last question I’d always ask was, “All right, three months from now, I’m in the role, things are going … I’m in the role or someone’s in the role. Maybe it’s me, maybe. Whatever. How would you know you made a right choice?
Hmm. Yeah, no, that’s a really good question.
And everyone I had asked that to would always be like, “That’s a great question.” And I would write notes down. So now I have a list of everything that I’m … all the people I’m going to be working with, what they expect me to do.
Oh my God. That’s perfect.
So I put it on a OneNote of, “This is what I need to do for the next three months.” [crosstalk 00:30:40].
That is fantastic. Yeah, no-
So I have this list of what I’m expected to do in order to be a success. And it’s not really hard things. It’s a lot of making sure you know your way around, or building good connections or having an idea … starting on those projects. No one’s expected me to solve Middle East peace process or anything like that.
Yeah. And that’s a great question because you know how each person thinks about it and what they want. How you work with each person, so that’s fantastic to ask each person that. Yeah, that’s really good. No, you didn’t get that one from me, but I’m going to take it.
[crosstalk 00:31:17] that. Yeah, but it’s been great. It’s really helpful. I have a whole cheat sheet on, “I know what everybody wants.”
Yeah. That’s fantastic. Yeah, you got your roadmap for expectations to be set. So how do you feel in general about the new role compared to your old role? What are you most excited about?
Let’s see, I’m excited about, I feel like I have a really good foundational relationship with my new management team, which I feel like I had kind of lost my other role. So I’m excited about that. So I feel like as long as I’m meeting those expectations, I’m setting myself up for additional advancement and just support. I’m just excited to go into something with people who believe in me and think that … because I was able to … They’ve never seen me work. I had to do all this, just talking about them. All [crosstalk 00:32:06].
They never interviewed my past manager, last colleague, former colleagues. So this is people based upon me being able to tell my story of what I can do. So I’m excited to be able to live up to those expectations and exceed them. And just excited to be able to use my superpower. That’s what’s really
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fun. I feel like I didn’t just get this job because it was there and I needed a job. I got there because I was really just selling what I could do, the gift that I have.
So I’m just super excited that I’m going to go into a job. And not only do they expect me to do this work, but that’s part of my job description. Because I did that, and it previously not happened. I didn’t have role clarity. It was just really nice. It was like, now I have, “Okay, they know that I’m there to solve of problems. They know that I’m there to improve processes.” As opposed to my previous role where it was just something I would sometimes do and got a lot of pushback on. So I’m in this place that knows that I’m there to do this thing that they hired me for, which I’m super excited about.
Yeah. That is so exciting. Yeah. So did anything surprise you when you got into the program? Did anything surprise you or was it different than you expected?
It was surprising actually to have that first part be like, “All right, we’re going to start with you.” Because other programs I’d been with had been like, “Cut the crap, get a job. Do this and try that.” And it kind of high-leveled the idea of that incompetence. But it didn’t full-section it. And I think that surprised me. It’s the harder section really, because that takes that more work. But then everything else is just-
Everything else flows, yeah.
… learning the language kind of thing.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, everybody who gets the success from the program has mentioned that. They’ve talked about that first section of being like, “That was hard. But once I got that, everything was smooth sailing from there,” or, “I understood what was going on from there.” So thanks for reaffirming that. And what is life going to look like for you now, being in this new role?
So it’s still a lot similar, but I think I’m going to just be a little happier. So get up in the morning and just excited to go do my role. It is local, so my office is nearby maybe going to the office couple times. And manager’s nearby. I actually have lunch with her tomorrow. So we set up a local lunch, which is great. And enjoy my job and make an impact.
And everything else is … We’re still at home. But everything will look a little better, but life will just feel a little less stressed, because it was just getting really rough. I was losing my hair. I was getting so stressed.
Yeah, I think we don’t talk about that enough, how much staying in a job that I don’t know if you would call it toxic, but-
It was [crosstalk 00:35:10].
… a culture that … Yeah.
Yeah. It was like going through … I went through a divorce, and it was like that, where you’re just feeling down. You just know you’re not where you’re supposed to be. This just felt so much better to just be somewhere where I’m supposed to be, and not just … It was hard being in that kind of toxic environment because I’ve done the training and it’s like, “I know I’m not supposed to be there.”
So it’s not just being in it. It’s being in it, and trying to get out of it. So it’s like a different level of difficulty. You’re going through the reality, plus you’re living in the just desired fantasy that you’re trying to manifest.
Yeah, totally. And for anyone who’s not actively working to get out of it, that’s going to make you lose your hair. And a lot of other things are probably going to happen physically. So yeah, I just want to say to anybody listening, who’s in that situation and who isn’t making significant progress every day to move out.
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Because yes, there’s a transition phase and you go through the steps to get to where you are. But if you’re not actively moving out, then that’s even worse. Because then there’s no hope. There’s no action towards it.
Yeah. And I had actually told my manager that I was looking for another role. And if I didn’t get one by, I think, the 15th of this month, I was just going to resign. I would rather to not be here than be here in a role that I felt was toxic. And I think that was something for me that was really hard to come by because it takes a lot of bravery to just say, “I would rather be nowhere than here.” And I’m confident enough in myself to say, “Well, I’ll get something later. But being here is hurting me.”
I have friends who are actually very successful, who would do that and who I’d seen do that. I remember talking to them. They’d be like, “Yeah, no, the boss was awful, so I just quit.” I mean, you can do that. I’m in a position now where I can do that because I’m engaged and I have financial things. But I, previous, had not had that. I was a single mom. I don’t know if I could say I was or wasn’t in that position. But I’ve always made excuses where I couldn’t do that. I think that even ate away a little bit at myself too.
That’s a really valid choice and I’m glad you brought that up. Because I did that many times as well. I was just like, “Yeah, I’m quitting and I have nowhere to go. And I’m totally fine with it.”
It’s a full acknowledgement of your confidence. And I think just getting to that point of, “Nope, I’m going to do it.” And instead quitting, I … Well, actually, I did wind up quitting because-
Yeah, and it lined up perfectly. But if it hadn’t, it wouldn’t have mattered because it would’ve at some point anyway. And it’s the belief. You quitting like that proves that you believe that you’re going to get the next thing. And you don’t worry about it because you know that you can. And I think it’s a myth that we’ve heard over and over. It’s like, “Oh, don’t quit till you get something else.” And it’s like, it doesn’t have to be like that. You have to choose what’s right for you. But it’s definitely a valid option.
So how would you describe coaching to someone who’s never experienced it before, who has no idea what it is? You said you’ve hired a coach before. You’ve been in some other programs before. How would you describe the kind of mindset coaching that we do inside the program to someone who’s never really had any exposure to it?
Sure. Yeah. I think what sets your program apart and you in general is good coach. They’re the person asking questions. And because I think we have this idea of, coach is going to tell us what to do, or I can do it on my own. A lot of people think, “Oh, I can just figure this out on my own.” And that’s funny because we just had the Olympics. And every single one of those athletes have coach. Successful people have coaches. So it gets to that point of successful people have whole teams helping them succeed.
What I particularly like about you, and I see you do this in your coaching sessions is you’re just really good at bringing out those questions. You’re hearing people babel on, “Oh, I can’t do this. I don’t want to do that. They don’t appreciate me.” And your response isn’t like, “Oh, well that’s too bad.” It’s more of like, “Oh, well what about this?” And not, “What about this,” in a suggested way or how … But of just the way you ask questions, I think is really helpful.
So telling someone who hadn’t had a coach, because I have talked to other people about this. The coach will just help draw out stuff that’s probably there already, but you just have it buried.
Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great way to put it.
[crosstalk 00:39:42] there might help uncover some things, but successful people all have coaches. And that it’s not something … You don’t have to figure out the world on your own. There are people out there who know how to do things. And that’s what’s nice about your program is it has a high ROI and then you guarantee it. And I don’t think anyone’s ever asked for your money back.
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Nope. But I mean, I just want people to be happy and get their money’s worth. So yeah. And that’s why I love doing these interviews because I love how sharing your … hearing about your experience. Because you’re behind the scenes doing the work. All the work is you. You did all of the work to make it successful.
And then, the interview, you can bring it all full circle and be like, “This is what I did,” right? But it was all you that took the program and sparked genius in your own brain. And then, went out there and made it work.
Absolutely. And the way that the program is designed, it’s really done well in these step levels of, go through that whole process. And it’s a natural flow to the process, which I like. It didn’t feel forced, or difficult, or hard to step into. It’s just right from … You just start this way and go down this path, almost like a guide. And I found it was just so helpful. And it wasn’t like you were teaching mind-blowingly new or different, but it’s just the way that you compiled it and made it accessible. I think it’s just really great.
Plus, there’s the accountability, and that’s what’s different. Because you can get a lot of the stuff in a book. Maybe you can get it elsewhere. But it’s just your accountability of, “Oh, for our sessions, you don’t have to raise your hand.” But there’s that, “It’s helpful and you paid for it.” And I appreciate that.
Exactly, and that’s a big thing. It’s like, when someone puts money on the line, all of a sudden now they are committed in their mind to, “Okay, I got to show up for this. I got to do this.” And-
And that was how I was like, “I paid for this. So this I’m going to make this worth it.” And it’s … Oh my God.
And that’s the attitude. Yeah. Would you have any advice for somebody who’s thinking about it, but not sure? Kind of on the fence, nervous it won’t work?
Well, it comes to you when it’s ready. It’s like, the teacher is there when the student’s ready or something like that. But just, I look back and go, “Why didn’t I do this sooner? What was going on?” And I wish I had done it sooner. Like I said, I’d been getting your emails for years.
And I had looked at it before and I was like … I trying to remember what it was that like finally made me do it, but whatever that was, I’d say, hey, just try it if you’re are thinking about it. And it’s somehow speaking to you, even just a little, it’s because it’s speaking to you and-
Why do you think you’d waited so long?
Well, first, I think, I had used this other coach when I got my job at my company initially. And so a lot of it was just having those four years of, “Well, I have a job and its fine.” But I was always still getting your emails of, “These are interesting. Oh, that’s good.” But there was always something in the back of my head like, “Man, I’m going to need this for later. I’m going to need this for next step.” So I think the gap was there because I was busy. I wasn’t quite ready for finding that next step.
But I probably could have been ready about a year before. But I was really like, “Oh yeah, I really should. I really should.” Part of me was just scared of what is getting a promotion do? And also there was a lot … Actually, now that you mentioned it, I think the defining moment when you talk … You’ve mentioned this before, of when you realize those goal posts getting moved. And you just have enough.
I had had enough of being told by my manager of, I just needed to do this or I just needed to do that. Or we just needed to change that, or this is what a promotion looks like, or maybe that does, or this is excuse-
And then, not getting it. Not having follow through from her.
Yeah. And it was always some reason why there was always things changing. And then, I snapped out of, “Oh my gosh, my career is not external. It’s not happening outside. It’s not happening from goal posts.
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It’s not happening from whatever the reorg is happening. The changes has to be me.” [crosstalk 00:43:46].
Yeah, so you had that like moment of, “I’ve had enough and I’m going to do something about it.” And if you were to go back and do it again, what do you think you would do, decide differently to get where you are now sooner?
I would’ve probably looked about two years sooner. Literally, two years earlier in the … I should’ve started, like anybody working for a company. That’s like any relationship too, when you’re just like, “Wait a minute, what do you mean I need to do this? I’m need to do that?” I think people kind of normalize that behavior and think it’s okay. But no, you’re kind of getting the runaround.
Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of us are getting it for a long time. And me too, because I was in a relationship for 10 years that I should have left way sooner too. But yeah. Actually, I heard a podcast. A podcast was something that helped me to leave. It was like, “What are you tolerating in your life?” And I was like, “Oh my God, this is what I’m doing.” And I started crying. So yeah, do you have that defining moment that we all kind of know we should’ve or we could’ve probably done it sooner, if that’s what [crosstalk 00:44:44].
Yep, I did. And yeah, I talk to my fiance now all the time like, “Okay. I’m not going to live my life in regret. But how do I make sure this doesn’t happen again?” So I know that if I’m in a professional situation and I like this now. If I go and start my job. And it’s six months in or a year in, it’s like, something’s not right. I know I could leave. I have the ability and the skills to leave.
And that voice in my head of, “Well, try it out. Not every job is perfect.” Yeah, but what am I searching for can be out there of making sure that I have my value. And I think that’s possible.
Yeah, absolutely. So when you were in your job. And when you were in that situation where you were like, “Yeah, I have a job and it’s fine,” what would you have rated that job on a 1-to-10 scale?
I mean, it wasn’t the worst job in the world. I was just so ambitious. I think there were other people that I worked with who really liked the job. Because you go and you do your thing. You got paid. The benefits were good and you got paid. But it was like, I got my MBA and I just wanted more. So on the job itself scale, it was a really good job. So it’s hard to rate on the thing. It was a seven or eight.
But on that, but I want more and other people on the team didn’t. Or maybe they did or they didn’t, but they weren’t. Even though it was a small amount, it was really part of me was hurting.
Yeah, and you have to listen to that inner voice of, “I can do more than this.” And the beautiful thing is, in your new role now, they were like, “We see you as someone who can take on a bigger challenge actually.” And offering that to you and inviting you to step into that, because that’s who you were even back then. But now, finally being given that opportunity as really well deserved, right?
Yeah. I’m excited, because I’ve even told my colleagues, it’s like, “I bet you I’ll be back at this company. It’s a great company. And I’ve been at … It’s one of the top companies in the world to work in. And I’m like, “But you know what? I’m going to go back at a higher level. They’re going to pay me more. So three or so years. I don’t know, the company’s not going anywhere.
And that’s happened to me too where I’ve left and then they’ve invited me back. And I’ve been like, “Well, it’s going to cost you. You want me to come back?” And then, at that point you’re just a totally different bracket of adding value to them.
Absolutely. 100%. Which I never would’ve gotten unless I left. They, unfortunately, almost set that up because my stocks … I just hit my stock RSU cliff, which they couldn’t match. Because I got an offer and I reached out because I was still in interviewing, saying, “Hey, this other job I was interviewing for, I
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totally would’ve got it.” But it was like, “Could you match?” And they would’ve matched the salary only because I had an offer. They wouldn’t have paid that if I didn’t [crosstalk 00:47:30].
Leverage.
Yeah. It’s almost a $100K in stock that they wouldn’t have been able to match.
Yeah. Well, the levels are just exponential, right? In a few months, the amount of growth that you’ve had and what you’ve been able to achieve is just exponential in comparison to last two years or the last time with you signing up, showing up, doing the work. So yeah. Thank you so much for sharing all this stuff with us and-
Thank you.
… your experience. It’s been great to watch you grow. And I can’t wait to see what you’re going to do next, because I’m sure this is just the beginning for you.
I’m so excited. And just wanted to thank you and good luck to everybody else on in the program. Share those win stories. They’re great to hear.
Yeah. Amazing. Well, this is not the last of you, because you’re still in the program. You have lifetime access. Yeah, I’m excited for what you’re going to do next. And happy to have you back on again sometime when you moved up to your next year,
You know how it goes. [crosstalk 00:48:26].
All right. Did you love this podcast episode? This is only a tiny fraction of the kind of breakthroughs, mind-blowing explosions, and career-upgrading, magical stuff that happens when you join The Six Figure Curriculum. And it’s all available to you right now. Join to get immediate access to the video modules and get started. And the kind of things that you’ll end up saying are going to stick with interviewers for hours after they talk to you.
They’re going to be obsessed. They’re going to perceive your value so much higher once you start seeing it yourself. And when you join us before March 31st, you’re going to get a hard copy of The Six Figure Curriculum workbook mailed to you. Yeah, that’s right, in the mail. It’s really satisfying to have that in your hands if you’re anything like me. I really like to have a tactile thing to work with. And if I might say it, it’s not like any book you’ve really read. It’s not what you imagine.
It’s a deep, interactive best friend, so to speak, that will keep you on track and deeply focused in the work to land your premium offer in the next eight weeks or less. I can’t wait for you to get your hands on it. And if you’re impatient like me, there’s all the information for you to get oriented and get started right away. You get immediate access to that as well as the live Zoom calls every week, and the LinkedIn party that we’re having inside the private LinkedIn community as soon as you sign up. I will see you in there. And remember, March 31st. Get your hard copy.Page 1 of 14
Welcome again to another bonus very special episode we have coming up today on the Get a 6-Figure Job You Love podcast. So today, we are interviewing another one of my curriculum students, Misha, who is going to talk to you about valuing yourself. And how she was able to value herself right into an amazing position that she loves. And a 50% increase in salary bonuses and everything altogether. it’s going to be a great interview. So stay tuned.
Hey there. Welcome to the Get a 6-Figure Job You Love podcast. I’m your host, Natalie Fisher. I’m a certified career mindset coach who also happens to want to skip all the BS and get to what it really takes to create real results for you in your career. On this podcast, you will create real mindset shifts that will lead to big results and big changes in your career and your income. No fluff here. If you want to get a six-figure job you love, and create real concrete results in your industry, and make a real impact, you’re in the right place. Are you ready? Let’s go.
All right, here we are today again with another episode of the podcast, with my amazing client, Misha, who’s going to share all about her journey. Misha, please go ahead and introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about yourself and where you were when you joined.
Sure. First of all, thanks for having me. It’s an honor to be here and I’m so excited to be a success story. Me in a nutshell, I’m a program manager. I’m an operations program manager. I work in tech. My career journey was a little different because when I first got out of college 20 years ago, I actually was working in theater. So operations and production management backstage in theater. So did that for are just under 10 years.
And then, since that isn’t the most lucrative career, as I’m sure many people know, got into doing tech. And doing sales for tech, and then getting into operations for tech. And following into this career, but also realizing it’s the skills that I’ve had and always have had. Let’s see, I came to work with this program because I knew that I always had the skills. But I was always feeling like I was hitting against something that I wasn’t able to communicate it.
So if I was going into interviews or talking about raises in tech, people would say, “Well, you didn’t work in tech,” or, “You were working in something else. So that doesn’t count.” And I feel like I just spent years of just, “Well, I guess that doesn’t count.” I even went and got an MBA to be like, “That will make it count. That will show them that I know how to talk the talk,” which has helped. But it wasn’t like it just magically fixed things. Because then I finished my MBA, and that didn’t help.
It didn’t just magically fix or mean that I got a promotion or anything. And it really wasn’t until I made that commitment to, “Okay, fine. I’ve been getting the emails from Natalie for years.” I went back to look and see. I think I’ve had you on my radar for years since 2017. And I’m just always getting those emails and always just seeing, “Oh, maybe. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.”
And finally, I was like, “Okay, I’m going to do it.” I got to the point in my current job that I wasn’t going to where I needed to be. I was getting interviews, but wasn’t getting offers. So I need to make that next step.” And what you were saying, especially in those emails and these podcasts, was just speaking to me. And so I finally just went, “Okay, this is an investment. It’s an investment in me.”
I’ve hired a coach before and it was okay, but just what you did really just spoke to me. So I was just like, “I’m going to make an investment and I think it’s going to pay off.” And it has, so you [crosstalk 00:03:42].
So excited to talk about that. Yeah, thank you so much. Okay. That’s a really interesting background you come from. I didn’t know that. That’s awesome, because I think a lot of people have the same thoughts as you like, “Oh, this doesn’t count. This doesn’t count.” And if people tell you that, it cements that in. And really, it all counts, right? So [crosstalk 00:04:02].
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And now when I talk about it in interviews to other people, I bring it up. I bring it up as a skill like, “This is what sets me apart.” I was used to doing giant Broadway-style shows with people everywhere and seeing big pictures. And I’m able to tell that story as an asset. As opposed to, “Oh, that other thing I did,” that I embarrassed by.
Yeah. What a difference.
Huge difference.
Totally, yeah. So I guess you answered the next question a little bit. How do you look at those challenges now? But now versus before? So now you use your past as a strength, versus as something you might have been embarrassed about. Any other things that you came in with hesitancy and now are looking at in a completely different way?
Yeah. I think just talking about strengths and just talking about me in general. I always kind of kept it in my mind of, “I’m not a good storyteller.” I have other family members or a great storytellers, who get around and I just like to listen. Because I did theater, I was backstage, right? I wasn’t the actor in front. I was the one wearing black all the time. I was backstage with the headset. So I really had to get around that … I had to get over that because I work in corporate America.
A lot of the training, they even give you development training of just, it’s about storytelling. And you really have to get past that and over that, because I think, especially women, have this idea of talking about yourself as bad. Or we’ve all been in those meetings where usually some guy’s going on and on and on about himself. And everybody’s going to politely smile and eye roll. And we don’t want to be that person.
How do we be able to talk about ourselves and what we’re working on, either to other people in an interview situation, or even just for work? It’s one of those things that is required now for getting ahead in corporate. Telling stories. And being able to tell stories, whether it’s about yourself, or your team, or something, has to be a skill that you need to work on. Even if it’s hard, you have to work on it.
Yeah, and you mastered it. You got it down. What do you think the main shifts were that you made that went from, “Oh, I don’t want to be that person who’s arrogant and going on about myself,” to, “Oh, I do have this really valuable stuff to share with people”? And was able to successfully share it.
Yeah. It’s really just turning off that little voice in your head that’s like, “Nobody wants to hear this. Why are you still talking?” Hand the mic back. And then you’re just like, “Eh … ”
Yeah, I call it the asshole brain. The inner critic. A lot of clients have different names for it. But yes, it’s totally that. So-
And then, to show sometimes you need to be able to talk about what you do and not just show it. Because I think that’s where I was just living. And I was like, “Can’t they just see how good I am? Can’t they just know how much work I do? Why don’t they just see it?” Why don’t I just go to my boss’s office and be like, “See?” And they go, “I don’t know what you did.”
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s something I’ve heard, like you’re not alone there. A lot of people have said, “Well, I feel like my work should speak for itself.”
Yeah. It just doesn’t. [crosstalk 00:07:06].
No it doesn’t. So what do you think the biggest fear you had to overcome to finally say, “Yes,” and make that investment in yourself and sign up for the program was? The biggest fear that you had to overcome, what would you say that was?
Yeah, I just think it was so internal. I think it was when I just thought I was going to learn to do this and it would fail. I thought I would pay this money and it wouldn’t really pay off. I had done coaching before and it was kind of okay. And that part of you is even scared of succeeding like, “Oh my God. What if I do
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this?” I start my new job next Monday and I’m mildly excited and mildly terrified at the same time like, “Oh my God-”
Totally normal.
“What if I’m great?”
Totally normal.
What do I tell them?
I have a client right now who’s in an inaction because she’s afraid that if she actually gets the job, then what, right? So that’s just the next level. And you have lifetime access in the program, so you’ll be able to come back and get coaching on all of that. So, great. Thank you for sharing that. And so what specific results improvements did you experience from the program tangibly and intangibly? So, emotionally and then in physical, how that shows up in your life now?
Sure. I think a lot of it, I like the way that the program is structured, where it starts off with, “We’re going to start with you and your confidence. Then, we’ll get into interviewing and stuff like that.” Because I saw that as what was holding me back with kind of me. And so I liked how it started that way. It also pressured me to do more work on that me work. And I highly recommend working in tangent with your program is getting yourself whatever additional support you need.
That help for me, I have therapist that I talk to, to really just … And I would talk to her about this like, “Why is this so hard? What is going on that is so difficult for me that this is so hard to be able to talk well about myself and this?” What are those expectations that obviously Natalie’s not going to get to, but someone else is going to really dive deeper into having discover what those things holding me back are?
And I liked that it started with that. Because no amount of anything later about, “Here, write your email this way,” or, “Try to negotiate that way,” wasn’t going to get me where I needed. Because that’s where I had seen other coaching I had, had was really focused on that, right? “Email this way and say something this way.” And it’s like, “Okay.” But it didn’t really get to the meat of it. Didn’t really start-
The root of the problem. Yeah. I’m so glad you mentioned that, because that’s called action-line coaching. It’s like, tell you what to do. And as you know, in the program, there’s a lot of how to say things too. But it has to start with the root cause of the problem.
Absolutely. Yeah, I just really just appreciated that. It was just like, “All right, this is where it starts. This is where I need to just face … This is the hard work.”
Yeah. Yeah, because a lot of people, they do struggle with that intentional self-confidence piece. And if you ask them to list all the things that they can’t do or that they’re not good at, that will be really easy for them. When you start asking them about the opposite, they’re like, “Oh, I haven’t really put that much thought into this before,” or, “Oh, what do I say?”
So yeah, I’m so glad you brought that up. It’s such an important foundational piece of the program, which is why I think that the successes are so high. And that everything moves faster for people because they do start with that root cause. Instead of trying to solve the wrong problem, which is how do I say this to differently? Or how do I write this email differently?” Yeah.
Or, “If I could just say it this way, that will change,” or, “If I just did this, that will change.” It’s like, no, no root cause.
Yeah. Yeah. Or if I just get my MBA, that will make me legitimate. Or if I do just go get this other … Yeah, all those are surface-level problems and the internal problem, the root cause really is the thing that needs to be tackled, which I don’t think there’s enough of. But yeah, you’re living proof of having not avoided that. Because a lot of people want to avoid that, because it’s uncomfortable too.
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Yeah. And then, what I really liked in the program was the focus on the interview of just, come back to the value. Come back to your value. And get away from the trying to impress. I can go back in my mind and, I want to just jostle myself. I’d been on some amazing interviews with amazing companies. And I just remember sitting there acting like a complete alien, trying to be impressive or, “Why don’t they like me?” Or, “I’ll say this, or, “I’ll say that.” Or God knows what I was saying.
And then, afterwards, it was like, what alien just took over my body? Then, what do you know? I didn’t get the job. And I just really like your point of, “No, no, circle back to your value. Just keep talking about your value. And making it a friend. And being friendly and stuff,” which I naturally am. But being friendly in that showing-your-value way, and not trying to be like, “You’ll like me if I do this.”
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And I think this is a good time to mention also that you had been doing a lot of really valuable work. Maybe not in the capacity of the official title with the official salary. But do you want to talk a little bit about that? Because that was already there, but then you up-leveled in how you were able share and then communicate it.
Yeah. So a lot of my career, if I look back on it, I started at the bottom. I started the intern or I started as a temp worker. And then, I always was doing more and more. And always told, “Wow, you do such great work. You do such great work.” And slowly moving up. So I was constantly having to justify what I was doing. And never really being at that level that I should’ve been at. But I was always doing that work. And back at that conversation before it was like, “People … Can’t they just see how I’m doing well?”
But I didn’t know how to really articulate, “This is what I’m doing. This is the money. This is how much it’s helped us and this is what it’s doing well.” Then, when I finally got to where I could talk about that in my previous role, it wasn’t getting receptive. And I realized that this isn’t the place that’s going to receive that. Maybe this isn’t my audience. So it’s finding that balance of, “Wait, I know I’m doing good work. If you can’t see that, I guess I’m in the wrong place.”
And then, how not to get personal, because I remember being in one-on-ones with my managers, in tears, like “I’m doing the work. What is going on?” And it’s just like, but if they’re not seeing that, then it’s time to find someone who will.
Exactly. Yeah. And you were astute enough to notice that. And I like to call it, you’re the best package, but at the wrong address.
Oh, that’s fantastic. I love that, because it’s really hard, because I’m like, “But I’m doing what you’re saying. Why isn’t it working?” Because in your emails, it says, “This is why you got the interview, but that the job,” or, “Why you’re not getting your promotions.” I love that. That you’re the best package but you’re just at the wrong place. It’s really-
Yeah. And it wasn’t your fault. You just had to notice, and now you’re at the right place.
Yeah.
Yeah. So would you say it was worth time, worth your investment to have the result that you now have, which we’ll get into, for having taken that leap and invested in the program?
Oh, 100%. Oh my gosh, yeah. I’ve been already recommending it.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, because when I notified my greater team that I was leaving, some people reached out to me. And one of my colleagues even said, “Oh, I’m excited for you. Your next thing sounds really good. I would do it if I had the guts.” And that was her words. I’m like, “Sweetheart, you’ve got the guts. You could do it.” And I recommended you. I was like, “Here, just go do this.”
I’m not trying to advocate people leaving the company, because she was talking more even about just getting a promotion. But I did mention, it was like, “After a while, you look around. And if no one around
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you was really being promoted on your team, maybe it’s the culture of the team and not you.” Because other teams, I saw where people were moving, and growing, and shifting. And why aren’t we doing that? So I recommended that for her. As I recommended, I mentioned the book, You Are a Badass, which I just think is great.
I love it too. Yeah, it was really good.
Because that idea of open yourself up and just imagine the world you want. And just bring it to you. But you need a few months. It takes a while and it’s hard and-
It takes some time for it to catch up. For the external to catch up with what you’re now doing internally. But when you start thinking differently, it matches. Yeah. [crosstalk 00:15:25].
But it’s totally matched. It’s fantastic. I think of just that value of that. Also, just your assistance. I really appreciated that you helped me a little when I got an offer. I did reach out to Natalie. I don’t know if I should say that you did this. But you did help me a little bit, craft that email. Well, I crafted it. And you’re like, “Move that.” So as far as a service right there, that was 100% ROI. I think you [crosstalk 00:15:48] right there.
No, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s fantastic. Also, your ability to ask for help, and step up, and get what you needed. That’s a big part of the program is people need to post in the group. They need to reach out and get the assistance that they need. So that they can get the results too. So yeah. And so what do you think, if there is, a key that sealed the deal for that job offer for you? Was it a key thought, or a key mindset or approach that you could share?
I think it’s just, I wound up interviewing with the hiring manager, her manager, and then her boss. So the three. And just keeping, just consistent, that value. And consistent of, like I said again, about owning my past. Because before, I think … Because I was a little scared to talk about my past being in a different industry. Which I know a lot of people are always worried about, “Oh, but I did this before and I want to do something else,” which was hard. Because I had been in interviews where the reason I didn’t get the job because I, quote, didn’t have the experience.
But I had the passion and the commitment to say how this was relevant. And I think that’s what hit me of why I got the job. I could just tell that consistent story. I should say that there were two jobs that were open at this company that I’m going to be working at. One was very similar to what I had been doing. I could’ve stepped in. And the other one was kind of peripheral of doing.
And I talked the hiring manager because we’ve had a good rapport. And said, “So, curious? Which one are you thinking about? Because right now, I’m on the one that’s a little different. Why would shouldn’t I have this one?” And she said, “Yes, I think that one would be easier for you. But that one seems like it would be easier to fill. And you look like you’re better for a challenge.” I was like-
Nice. Part of you is like, “Yes.” And part of you is like, “I’m terrified.”
Yes, 100%. It’s a lot like the other one. I’m going to lock in and look good. And this one’s like, “Oh, boy.” But it also lent to my having a justification for when I got the offer to say, “Hey, thought we were going to do a little bit more, because I’m a little bit more special.” And they took it. I mean, I’m getting paid … I had never gone over that $100K threshold on a job. I had never been able to break it, even though I knew that people elsewhere were.
And with this one, not only I beat it, I went over like 30% more. It’s like, it’s almost a 50% increase if you include my stock. It’s just been great of just being able to consistently speak the value. And also, that little bit, “I’m checking you out too.” And so you don’t have that sense of neediness in an interview.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because you’re like, “Well, if you don’t want me, someone else will.” And that’s where that whole work that you put in, the foundational, work of doing the intentional self-
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confidence exercise always grants you back into that. That doesn’t go away. That doesn’t change. And now it’s just about navigating that on the outside. But you did a wonderful job.
Thank you.
So what were some of the main moments of insight that you had into how to move forward productively? Because we know it’s a process. We know that not everything always works out. So what were some of those key milestones that you went through to get yourself now to the final result?
Because I was doing a lot of interviewing over a span of like six month months. So I was constantly reviewing just the different sections of that phase that I was in. But as far as key milestones were just going through the videos, which I would listen to in my car. So turn it away, so I couldn’t watch it. But just listen to in my car.
And then there was sometimes one that was like, “I need to listen to that again,” because that’s what I need to hear about what that is of … but, “Oh, that was good. I’ll listen to that again on the way home.” I’m trying to … Of course, I’ve gone blank about what’s the specifics of, because I think I found that it would change depending on where my head was in that process. So sometimes-
Yeah, totally. I can recall a few because we coached a little bit [crosstalk 00:19:56]. But the one where you were in the interviewing process and then you were worried about losing momentum. And then, realizing that you are actually attracting higher-quality opportunities as you went.
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:20:10] of going back. Yeah, so that’s when I would go back and go listen to that again. Go listen to this thing again. Because it was hard. It was a long slog. Because I was applying for internal positions … I was working for a great company. I loved my company. Absolutely loved it. Just, my manager and I weren’t aligned. And my company requires, if you start internally interviewing, you have to tell your manager, which I’ve giving them feedback that you shouldn’t have to do. Because then, my manager basically stopped giving me work to do for six … for several months. And just made it a little bit harder for me.
So just keeping up that momentum, because I would go on these interviews. And you give a lot. Your styling of interviewing is energetic because you’re giving a lot. Not in a showy way, but just because you’re there [crosstalk 00:20:58]. You’re also meeting really cool people. I just met some really great people, which is what I really liked about all those different interviews.
But also I was getting, “Sorry, but we’re not going with you.” [crosstalk 00:21:09] all of them. It’s funny. I look back and it was like, I feel like I interviewed so many things, but I think it might have been six, which isn’t that many.
Yeah, it’s important to point that out because someone will say, “So many.” And it’s like, well, how many is that actually? And six isn’t that many. Yeah.
Yeah. It’s not that many. It was just, they were drawn out. They would just months. One interview loop of three months long. But it wasn’t just six interviews, six positions. And each one was like three or four interviews per position. So maintaining that just enthusiasm while other things are going on.
And your experience of interviewing changed, I feel like, because I feel like you said … I think you mentioned at one point that you did hate interviewing.
Yeah.
And dread it. And then, you got to the point where you were meeting cool people and enjoying the process.
Yeah. Yeah, I-
What do you think shifted there for how you were able to do that?
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I’m trying to remember [crosstalk 00:22:02].
But that’s pretty huge. That’s pretty huge. Because now when you interview again or you’re going to get promoted, that’s all going to be a lot different for you.
100%. Yeah, because it’s funny. I remember, because I said that I used to get your emails for many years, that would just come. And I distinctly remember I used to pin one on the top of my Hotmail that was … I think the subject was something like, “Do you hate interviewing?” I had that pinned on the top and I just looked at it like, “Oh, I do. I don’t want to do it. I don’t want it to do it.”
And then, finally, when I did it, I had since unpinned that. But just how the training just keeps rehashing of, “Just talk about you. Talk about the other person. Just get away from this showiness of fear of, are they going to like me?” I think we all resort back to elementary school playground, right?
Totally, like, “Approve of me, please. Please.”
I think we all just go back there.
[crosstalk 00:22:59] with me.
Yeah, so that’s where that came from. And now it’s just like, “Okay.” And it’s just really a matter of being able to remember what it is you want to talk about. I don’t know how well I’ll do of when we go back to in-person interviews. Because I really like having online interviews. Because what you don’t see is I have two other screens. I have my notes that tell me to, sorry, about when telling a story, do the situation, the action, the results, and then what it did.
And then, I have a list of, “These are the things I did.” So even though I don’t have the whole story memorized … That’s what always another thing I was always worried about. I need to have a story memorized about each thing. Instead, I would just have a list of, “Here’s eight projects that I know I did.” So if they asked a question, I could be like, “Oh yeah.” So I find that actually really helpful. I’m not looking forward to going back to in person, because I guess I just need a quick little cheat sheet on that because-
That’s funny. You should say that. Because I’ve had so many people say, “I’m better in person. I can’t do the Zoom. And here you are saying, “I like the Zoom better.”
Yeah, I used to love phone interviews over personal interview, because I just like to be able to have my notes. That’s just me. So yeah, you got to just do what works for you, because I like taking notes and typing. I type fast. But now when I have those kind of things, I set up the stories just loosely in my mind. And have that list to stimulate. So [crosstalk 00:24:28].
Yeah. That’s a pretty big win as well, just going from thinking you have to have this whole thing memorized and putting a lot of pressure on yourself, to just having some key points that you could look at. And be like, “Oh yeah, I can talk about that.” That’s huge. And frees you all up from having to cram all this information in and regurgitate it perfectly, because that is not happening anyway.
Yeah, because I used to think those stories … I used to think, “How are I going to know about these stories. They’re going to judge me on my storytelling.” Or, “How am I going to have a story that’s going to matter for each time.” Then, for the first few interviews, it was a little hard. Because I found that little voice in my head being like, “Where’s my story going? What’s happening?”
And then, realizing, “Okay, just remember to about situation. This is it. This is the result. And then circle it back. What’s interesting.” And it’s nice because you see on the interviewers face like, “Oh” and then they just-
Yeah. You can see the difference in how people respond to you when you’re doing it like that. Yeah, totally shifted completely.
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Instead of, “Then, I did this and … ” Because then, people are concerned. Then you-
Because you get nervous, and then they get nervous for you. And it’s just uncomfortable. Yeah, for sure. So-
It’s also very, I think, telling when you’re interviewing people, do they like your stories? It’s like dating, right? Is there a good rapport?
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you’re gauging how you feel about them in the same way. Yeah. So what do you think made the program successful for you specifically? What do you think are some of the ways that you implemented? I know you mentioned listening in your car worked for you. What are some of the things that you did specifically that you think made it successful?
Because obviously, if somebody signs up and they don’t come and do any of the work, they’re not going to get the success. So would you talk a little bit about your strategy for making it successful for you?
Sure. Yeah, for me, just doing how little could I do, that’s going to be helpful? So that was a lot of-
Great question to ask.
What could I do? Because I’ll admit, I didn’t do all the worksheets and all the things. Because that’s [crosstalk 00:26:29].
You don’t have to do all of it. Many people tell me they didn’t do the whole thing, and then they got the result. Because it’s not about the quantity of work. It’s about the little shifts that you have.
Absolutely, the little shifts and then that repetition of hearing it again in different ways like, “That’s what I want.” So what worked for me, again, as I said, is just listening to the videos in my car. It’s also, too, a matter of just being the right time. Are you ready to receive it? And the coaching, and just be willing to go to the coaching sessions and hear it out. And listen to other people, who are often having similar experiences.
And now I go to the coaching sessions and I hear the other people. I hear that they’re in where I was before. And listening to them with just a lot of compassion of, “Oh, I was there before. I remember that. I’m so glad I’m not there anymore.”
[Crosstalk 00:27:24].
It keeps you going. Just keep going. Yeah, through the path, just keep swimming. So it’s just-
Yeah, absolutely. And knowing that you’ll get there. Trust the process.
Exactly. And then, that and really taking advantage of the 101 coaching we had, or reaching out. I like that you make yourself really available. Because I think, when I did get an offer, I was like, “Oh my God.” Yeah, I came to you. I was like, “I got an offer. Is this a good response?” I didn’t come in with, “Tell me what to do.” It was like, “This is … ” I actually went back to the materials being like, “How am I supposed to respond to an offer?” And then looked at the PDFs and tried to-
Yeah. And that’s the best kind of coaches is when somebody coaches themselves or gets the information. And then, say, “This is what I’ve come up with. Can you help me upgrade this or improve it?” The best mentality, I think, to have is to do it how you did it. And the other thing I wanted to mention was some people think they have to go through step by step, do every little thing. And that it’s going to take a long time. But you didn’t do any of that and you the results. So did you kind of jump around? How did you decide what video you were going to watch that day?
I kind of went through everything. And then, if something was particularly just of interest to me, I would go back and listen. Especially, after I’d gone everything through once. And then, I would, “Oh, right. What do I need to hear again? What was that thing about how to negotiate?” I loved your topic on the negotiating, because I’ve taken several negotiating class. And I just love your thing of, “Never argue.”
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Just, “Yeah, you’re right. Oh my gosh. Sure.” I found myself doing that in my HOA meeting, because arguing really helps with them and [crosstalk 00:29:03].
It’s great because you diffuse any attention. It’s not pressuring anybody. It’s just having this conversation. But yeah, that’s a tactic I learned from, I think, a book I read somewhere. It’s like, “Always agree with them first and then introduce your point.” It’s magic, really. Yeah. So what will you use, do you think, moving forward, going in to your new role?
Just maintaining that value and not trying to be like, “Oh, are they going to like me? Oh, are they going to like me?” And just remember, you’re here to bring a value. That’s what they wanted. And just-
Know you can do it. Yeah.
And then, just keep that more high-level way of working and way of thinking about yourself. What I’m really looking forward to is just getting away from that feeling like I’m starting low or starting small and have to be that go-getter. And maybe they’ll like me. I’m just doing my job. And I know what it is. Because when I interviewed, I asked every single person similar questions. And I can’t remember if it was you that gave me this question or if I found it elsewhere that was basically …
So the last question I’d always ask was, “All right, three months from now, I’m in the role, things are going … I’m in the role or someone’s in the role. Maybe it’s me, maybe. Whatever. How would you know you made a right choice?
Hmm. Yeah, no, that’s a really good question.
And everyone I had asked that to would always be like, “That’s a great question.” And I would write notes down. So now I have a list of everything that I’m … all the people I’m going to be working with, what they expect me to do.
Oh my God. That’s perfect.
So I put it on a OneNote of, “This is what I need to do for the next three months.” [crosstalk 00:30:40].
That is fantastic. Yeah, no-
So I have this list of what I’m expected to do in order to be a success. And it’s not really hard things. It’s a lot of making sure you know your way around, or building good connections or having an idea … starting on those projects. No one’s expected me to solve Middle East peace process or anything like that.
Yeah. And that’s a great question because you know how each person thinks about it and what they want. How you work with each person, so that’s fantastic to ask each person that. Yeah, that’s really good. No, you didn’t get that one from me, but I’m going to take it.
[crosstalk 00:31:17] that. Yeah, but it’s been great. It’s really helpful. I have a whole cheat sheet on, “I know what everybody wants.”
Yeah. That’s fantastic. Yeah, you got your roadmap for expectations to be set. So how do you feel in general about the new role compared to your old role? What are you most excited about?
Let’s see, I’m excited about, I feel like I have a really good foundational relationship with my new management team, which I feel like I had kind of lost my other role. So I’m excited about that. So I feel like as long as I’m meeting those expectations, I’m setting myself up for additional advancement and just support. I’m just excited to go into something with people who believe in me and think that … because I was able to … They’ve never seen me work. I had to do all this, just talking about them. All [crosstalk 00:32:06].
They never interviewed my past manager, last colleague, former colleagues. So this is people based upon me being able to tell my story of what I can do. So I’m excited to be able to live up to those expectations and exceed them. And just excited to be able to use my superpower. That’s what’s really
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fun. I feel like I didn’t just get this job because it was there and I needed a job. I got there because I was really just selling what I could do, the gift that I have.
So I’m just super excited that I’m going to go into a job. And not only do they expect me to do this work, but that’s part of my job description. Because I did that, and it previously not happened. I didn’t have role clarity. It was just really nice. It was like, now I have, “Okay, they know that I’m there to solve of problems. They know that I’m there to improve processes.” As opposed to my previous role where it was just something I would sometimes do and got a lot of pushback on. So I’m in this place that knows that I’m there to do this thing that they hired me for, which I’m super excited about.
Yeah. That is so exciting. Yeah. So did anything surprise you when you got into the program? Did anything surprise you or was it different than you expected?
It was surprising actually to have that first part be like, “All right, we’re going to start with you.” Because other programs I’d been with had been like, “Cut the crap, get a job. Do this and try that.” And it kind of high-leveled the idea of that incompetence. But it didn’t full-section it. And I think that surprised me. It’s the harder section really, because that takes that more work. But then everything else is just-
Everything else flows, yeah.
… learning the language kind of thing.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, everybody who gets the success from the program has mentioned that. They’ve talked about that first section of being like, “That was hard. But once I got that, everything was smooth sailing from there,” or, “I understood what was going on from there.” So thanks for reaffirming that. And what is life going to look like for you now, being in this new role?
So it’s still a lot similar, but I think I’m going to just be a little happier. So get up in the morning and just excited to go do my role. It is local, so my office is nearby maybe going to the office couple times. And manager’s nearby. I actually have lunch with her tomorrow. So we set up a local lunch, which is great. And enjoy my job and make an impact.
And everything else is … We’re still at home. But everything will look a little better, but life will just feel a little less stressed, because it was just getting really rough. I was losing my hair. I was getting so stressed.
Yeah, I think we don’t talk about that enough, how much staying in a job that I don’t know if you would call it toxic, but-
It was [crosstalk 00:35:10].
… a culture that … Yeah.
Yeah. It was like going through … I went through a divorce, and it was like that, where you’re just feeling down. You just know you’re not where you’re supposed to be. This just felt so much better to just be somewhere where I’m supposed to be, and not just … It was hard being in that kind of toxic environment because I’ve done the training and it’s like, “I know I’m not supposed to be there.”
So it’s not just being in it. It’s being in it, and trying to get out of it. So it’s like a different level of difficulty. You’re going through the reality, plus you’re living in the just desired fantasy that you’re trying to manifest.
Yeah, totally. And for anyone who’s not actively working to get out of it, that’s going to make you lose your hair. And a lot of other things are probably going to happen physically. So yeah, I just want to say to anybody listening, who’s in that situation and who isn’t making significant progress every day to move out.
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Because yes, there’s a transition phase and you go through the steps to get to where you are. But if you’re not actively moving out, then that’s even worse. Because then there’s no hope. There’s no action towards it.
Yeah. And I had actually told my manager that I was looking for another role. And if I didn’t get one by, I think, the 15th of this month, I was just going to resign. I would rather to not be here than be here in a role that I felt was toxic. And I think that was something for me that was really hard to come by because it takes a lot of bravery to just say, “I would rather be nowhere than here.” And I’m confident enough in myself to say, “Well, I’ll get something later. But being here is hurting me.”
I have friends who are actually very successful, who would do that and who I’d seen do that. I remember talking to them. They’d be like, “Yeah, no, the boss was awful, so I just quit.” I mean, you can do that. I’m in a position now where I can do that because I’m engaged and I have financial things. But I, previous, had not had that. I was a single mom. I don’t know if I could say I was or wasn’t in that position. But I’ve always made excuses where I couldn’t do that. I think that even ate away a little bit at myself too.
That’s a really valid choice and I’m glad you brought that up. Because I did that many times as well. I was just like, “Yeah, I’m quitting and I have nowhere to go. And I’m totally fine with it.”
It’s a full acknowledgement of your confidence. And I think just getting to that point of, “Nope, I’m going to do it.” And instead quitting, I … Well, actually, I did wind up quitting because-
Yeah, and it lined up perfectly. But if it hadn’t, it wouldn’t have mattered because it would’ve at some point anyway. And it’s the belief. You quitting like that proves that you believe that you’re going to get the next thing. And you don’t worry about it because you know that you can. And I think it’s a myth that we’ve heard over and over. It’s like, “Oh, don’t quit till you get something else.” And it’s like, it doesn’t have to be like that. You have to choose what’s right for you. But it’s definitely a valid option.
So how would you describe coaching to someone who’s never experienced it before, who has no idea what it is? You said you’ve hired a coach before. You’ve been in some other programs before. How would you describe the kind of mindset coaching that we do inside the program to someone who’s never really had any exposure to it?
Sure. Yeah. I think what sets your program apart and you in general is good coach. They’re the person asking questions. And because I think we have this idea of, coach is going to tell us what to do, or I can do it on my own. A lot of people think, “Oh, I can just figure this out on my own.” And that’s funny because we just had the Olympics. And every single one of those athletes have coach. Successful people have coaches. So it gets to that point of successful people have whole teams helping them succeed.
What I particularly like about you, and I see you do this in your coaching sessions is you’re just really good at bringing out those questions. You’re hearing people babel on, “Oh, I can’t do this. I don’t want to do that. They don’t appreciate me.” And your response isn’t like, “Oh, well that’s too bad.” It’s more of like, “Oh, well what about this?” And not, “What about this,” in a suggested way or how … But of just the way you ask questions, I think is really helpful.
So telling someone who hadn’t had a coach, because I have talked to other people about this. The coach will just help draw out stuff that’s probably there already, but you just have it buried.
Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great way to put it.
[crosstalk 00:39:42] there might help uncover some things, but successful people all have coaches. And that it’s not something … You don’t have to figure out the world on your own. There are people out there who know how to do things. And that’s what’s nice about your program is it has a high ROI and then you guarantee it. And I don’t think anyone’s ever asked for your money back.
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Nope. But I mean, I just want people to be happy and get their money’s worth. So yeah. And that’s why I love doing these interviews because I love how sharing your … hearing about your experience. Because you’re behind the scenes doing the work. All the work is you. You did all of the work to make it successful.
And then, the interview, you can bring it all full circle and be like, “This is what I did,” right? But it was all you that took the program and sparked genius in your own brain. And then, went out there and made it work.
Absolutely. And the way that the program is designed, it’s really done well in these step levels of, go through that whole process. And it’s a natural flow to the process, which I like. It didn’t feel forced, or difficult, or hard to step into. It’s just right from … You just start this way and go down this path, almost like a guide. And I found it was just so helpful. And it wasn’t like you were teaching mind-blowingly new or different, but it’s just the way that you compiled it and made it accessible. I think it’s just really great.
Plus, there’s the accountability, and that’s what’s different. Because you can get a lot of the stuff in a book. Maybe you can get it elsewhere. But it’s just your accountability of, “Oh, for our sessions, you don’t have to raise your hand.” But there’s that, “It’s helpful and you paid for it.” And I appreciate that.
Exactly, and that’s a big thing. It’s like, when someone puts money on the line, all of a sudden now they are committed in their mind to, “Okay, I got to show up for this. I got to do this.” And-
And that was how I was like, “I paid for this. So this I’m going to make this worth it.” And it’s … Oh my God.
And that’s the attitude. Yeah. Would you have any advice for somebody who’s thinking about it, but not sure? Kind of on the fence, nervous it won’t work?
Well, it comes to you when it’s ready. It’s like, the teacher is there when the student’s ready or something like that. But just, I look back and go, “Why didn’t I do this sooner? What was going on?” And I wish I had done it sooner. Like I said, I’d been getting your emails for years.
And I had looked at it before and I was like … I trying to remember what it was that like finally made me do it, but whatever that was, I’d say, hey, just try it if you’re are thinking about it. And it’s somehow speaking to you, even just a little, it’s because it’s speaking to you and-
Why do you think you’d waited so long?
Well, first, I think, I had used this other coach when I got my job at my company initially. And so a lot of it was just having those four years of, “Well, I have a job and its fine.” But I was always still getting your emails of, “These are interesting. Oh, that’s good.” But there was always something in the back of my head like, “Man, I’m going to need this for later. I’m going to need this for next step.” So I think the gap was there because I was busy. I wasn’t quite ready for finding that next step.
But I probably could have been ready about a year before. But I was really like, “Oh yeah, I really should. I really should.” Part of me was just scared of what is getting a promotion do? And also there was a lot … Actually, now that you mentioned it, I think the defining moment when you talk … You’ve mentioned this before, of when you realize those goal posts getting moved. And you just have enough.
I had had enough of being told by my manager of, I just needed to do this or I just needed to do that. Or we just needed to change that, or this is what a promotion looks like, or maybe that does, or this is excuse-
And then, not getting it. Not having follow through from her.
Yeah. And it was always some reason why there was always things changing. And then, I snapped out of, “Oh my gosh, my career is not external. It’s not happening outside. It’s not happening from goal posts.
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It’s not happening from whatever the reorg is happening. The changes has to be me.” [crosstalk 00:43:46].
Yeah, so you had that like moment of, “I’ve had enough and I’m going to do something about it.” And if you were to go back and do it again, what do you think you would do, decide differently to get where you are now sooner?
I would’ve probably looked about two years sooner. Literally, two years earlier in the … I should’ve started, like anybody working for a company. That’s like any relationship too, when you’re just like, “Wait a minute, what do you mean I need to do this? I’m need to do that?” I think people kind of normalize that behavior and think it’s okay. But no, you’re kind of getting the runaround.
Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of us are getting it for a long time. And me too, because I was in a relationship for 10 years that I should have left way sooner too. But yeah. Actually, I heard a podcast. A podcast was something that helped me to leave. It was like, “What are you tolerating in your life?” And I was like, “Oh my God, this is what I’m doing.” And I started crying. So yeah, do you have that defining moment that we all kind of know we should’ve or we could’ve probably done it sooner, if that’s what [crosstalk 00:44:44].
Yep, I did. And yeah, I talk to my fiance now all the time like, “Okay. I’m not going to live my life in regret. But how do I make sure this doesn’t happen again?” So I know that if I’m in a professional situation and I like this now. If I go and start my job. And it’s six months in or a year in, it’s like, something’s not right. I know I could leave. I have the ability and the skills to leave.
And that voice in my head of, “Well, try it out. Not every job is perfect.” Yeah, but what am I searching for can be out there of making sure that I have my value. And I think that’s possible.
Yeah, absolutely. So when you were in your job. And when you were in that situation where you were like, “Yeah, I have a job and it’s fine,” what would you have rated that job on a 1-to-10 scale?
I mean, it wasn’t the worst job in the world. I was just so ambitious. I think there were other people that I worked with who really liked the job. Because you go and you do your thing. You got paid. The benefits were good and you got paid. But it was like, I got my MBA and I just wanted more. So on the job itself scale, it was a really good job. So it’s hard to rate on the thing. It was a seven or eight.
But on that, but I want more and other people on the team didn’t. Or maybe they did or they didn’t, but they weren’t. Even though it was a small amount, it was really part of me was hurting.
Yeah, and you have to listen to that inner voice of, “I can do more than this.” And the beautiful thing is, in your new role now, they were like, “We see you as someone who can take on a bigger challenge actually.” And offering that to you and inviting you to step into that, because that’s who you were even back then. But now, finally being given that opportunity as really well deserved, right?
Yeah. I’m excited, because I’ve even told my colleagues, it’s like, “I bet you I’ll be back at this company. It’s a great company. And I’ve been at … It’s one of the top companies in the world to work in. And I’m like, “But you know what? I’m going to go back at a higher level. They’re going to pay me more. So three or so years. I don’t know, the company’s not going anywhere.
And that’s happened to me too where I’ve left and then they’ve invited me back. And I’ve been like, “Well, it’s going to cost you. You want me to come back?” And then, at that point you’re just a totally different bracket of adding value to them.
Absolutely. 100%. Which I never would’ve gotten unless I left. They, unfortunately, almost set that up because my stocks … I just hit my stock RSU cliff, which they couldn’t match. Because I got an offer and I reached out because I was still in interviewing, saying, “Hey, this other job I was interviewing for, I
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totally would’ve got it.” But it was like, “Could you match?” And they would’ve matched the salary only because I had an offer. They wouldn’t have paid that if I didn’t [crosstalk 00:47:30].
Leverage.
Yeah. It’s almost a $100K in stock that they wouldn’t have been able to match.
Yeah. Well, the levels are just exponential, right? In a few months, the amount of growth that you’ve had and what you’ve been able to achieve is just exponential in comparison to last two years or the last time with you signing up, showing up, doing the work. So yeah. Thank you so much for sharing all this stuff with us and-
Thank you.
… your experience. It’s been great to watch you grow. And I can’t wait to see what you’re going to do next, because I’m sure this is just the beginning for you.
I’m so excited. And just wanted to thank you and good luck to everybody else on in the program. Share those win stories. They’re great to hear.
Yeah. Amazing. Well, this is not the last of you, because you’re still in the program. You have lifetime access. Yeah, I’m excited for what you’re going to do next. And happy to have you back on again sometime when you moved up to your next year,
You know how it goes. [crosstalk 00:48:26].
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