Hello, and welcome to the Get a Six-Figure Job You Love and Thrive podcast. This is Natalie Fisher. This is episode 236, what to do when you don’t have the official experience on paper. And I say official experience in quotations, but you can’t see me. So stay tuned.

Hey there, I’m Natalie Fisher. I’m a six-figure business builder, a mom of a two-year-old, the recover of a 10-year narcissistic relationship, and now in a super healthy one. And most of all, I’m a human who’s figuring this out with you. This podcast is about how to use your mind to thrive in your career and create the subconscious breakthroughs that you need to get there.

The subconscious blocks that you don’t even know you have to achieving your highest levels of earning and your best zone of genius moments and days in the flow. That is my goal for you. Let’s dive into the episode. And before we dive into today’s episode, I want to remind you that I’m the coach who is always going to point you back in the direction of your own wisdom. And so before we get started, I want to remind you, listen to your own wisdom first. This means listen to yourself first and me second and anyone else for that matter. Take what resonates and throw away what doesn’t unapologetically. I won’t be mad. I won’t be offended.

In fact, I will be proud of you for doing so because I know from a lot of personal experience that anything is only as effective as the amount of resonance that it has within your uniquely built brain. And something is only going to work if it feels right to you. And if you believe in it, or if you want to do the work to believe in it. And that’s what I’m here to help you do. Your inner wisdom is infinitely more valuable than mine when it comes to getting your outcomes and for what you are here to do on this planet. So I’m here to help you steer that wisdom in the most powerful way possible. I’m so happy you’re here. I’m so glad you’re here part of this. I’m so glad we’re here on the planet at the same time. Let’s dive into today’s episode.

Hello, hello. Okay. So this question has come up multiple, multiple times throughout my coaching career. And it just came up like three times this week. So I’m going to record a podcast episode on it. And I started thinking about it. And how I’ve had so many people blast through this problem very quickly, because of how I’ve been able to talk about it, and how they’ve just had this really quick mindset shift on it. And all of a sudden, they feel like this is not a problem anymore.

So here’s the scenario. Somebody has been doing a job unofficially. So maybe that’s come up in a situation where they’ve been manager, but not they haven’t held an official manager title. However, when their manager has left or gone, they’re always the person in charge. Or they’re always the one who’s leading the meetings or, you know, filling the manager’s shoes, even when the manager’s not there, but they don’t have the title of manager. So therefore, they don’t think that that counts, or they don’t think people are going to believe them, that they have that skill, that capability, that experience.

Another one that has just came up recently was one of my clients wants to do q&a. And she has been doing q&a. In fact, she always raises her hand to do the testing, she’s always involved in q&a. And for those of you who don’t know, q&a is quality assurance. In tech, she always wants to be the person who’s involved in that, because she’s obsessed with testing things. And she’s obsessed with figuring out the bugs and getting the bugs out. And so that’s just what she does. That’s just who she is, right. But she didn’t have the official title of that.

However, she was constantly putting herself in situations where she would be helping with that, where she would be doing that, where that was part of her day, right, whenever it was possible. And same with people who want to become leaders or want to become managers, they will be putting themselves in situations like that before they get the title. Another example might be for business analysts, for example, maybe you’re doing another role in the organization. And maybe you’re in marketing or something, and you’re like, oh, I want to do business analysis. And so you start just like, you learn about it, and you start looking at processes differently, you start taking unnecessary steps out, you start making things more efficient, like you just start doing that in your life, without really knowing that you’re doing it just because your brain grabbed onto it and thought, oh, this is so cool. And now that I’ve learned this, I’m going to apply it everywhere.

One of my clients said one time, he’s like, yeah, he’s like, I look at a process as far as finding a more efficient way to work, more efficient way to get to work as improving a process, right. And so that’s just the way that your brain will start to think about things and look at things when you start to really like lean into what you love to do where your zone of genius is. The other example I use was, before I was a coach, I was already coaching people without, you know, without knowing it. And I had a like a jokey title at my corporate job as the office life coach, right? They were like, oh, yeah, talk to Natalie, she’ll know what to do. She’ll help you figure that out. She’ll help you decide blah, blah, blah. So it was always kind of, I was a coach, but I never had a title. That was not my title. My title was HR director. So I was just like, you know what, it’s funny, because that’s not something that I would have ever said, oh, I want that title. That’s just who I am, right? And I didn’t even really know it yet back then. But that’s what I had always been doing.

So for you, if you are somebody who’s been gravitating towards a certain type of work, doing a certain type of thing, you notice that you’ve got a real passion for it, you notice that your mind just always thinks in that way, it operates in that way, then you have already been doing the work. And so the problem is, is that people think that you need to have the title first. They think validation comes first, right? And it’s actually funny, because holistically, in the world, in the universe, if we’re talking about creating something, it’s often that mistake that people make.

It’s like, oh, well, I have to see it to believe it, when really it’s you have to believe it to see it, right? Instead of like, you don’t manifest what you want, you manifest who you are, who you’re being, the vibration of the life that you are in, right? So it’s kind of a holistic principle. And I’m just breaking it down here with this particular example, because clients come and say, oh, I’ve done this work before, but it’s not official on paper. So how will I prove myself? How will I convince them kind of thing? And I’m just like, well, you already are that. So you can’t actually not be that. It’s not possible for you to not. The only thing that needs to shift here is your mindset around it.

So the problem that people have is they believe, and this is the thought error, this is the thing that’ll get in the way, is they believe that they need to have that title first. They believe that somebody else needs to give them the title, put it on paper, put it on a contract, make it official before they can then say, yes, I am that person. I’m a quality assurance engineer, or I am a manager, or I am a leader, or I am a coach. They feel like they have to have that title put into writing first by somebody else who has approved it, right? Instead, there are no rules around this. There is no rule that says that has to happen. There’s no chalkboard in the sky. God didn’t say that. There is no rule. You can simply decide that’s who I am, and these are all the reasons why. And so that’s the problem. When you believe you need to be validated externally by somebody else giving you that title so that you can convince other people, there’s all sorts of errors in that language anyway, but that’s what people usually believe. That’s what they come to me with.

Then what you do is you don’t allow yourself to become more of that until you have the title, right? So then your block is you’re thinking, well, I got to get the title first before I can go do that work. And the reason why it’s backwards is because no, you do the work first, you gravitate to the work first, and then you get the title, right? And if it happened for you the other way around, like if you got the title first, and that was great, and that’s what you wanted, like that’s great. I’m not saying that’s a problem, but I’m saying most of the time, and a lot of the times, it doesn’t happen that way.

And you end up gravitating towards something that you love, and then you get the title later, right? Maybe because you asked for it, because maybe you have to move organizations to get it, maybe. But when you become that, and when you realize, oh, this is who I am, I love this, the more you do it, the more you feel alive, and the more you feel like that’s who you are, you will gravitate towards a place, a person, an area, an environment where you will have that title. You will get known as that, right? And so if you keep thinking that you have to wait for someone to give you the title for it to be real, then you’ll be waiting for a long time, and it’s more unlikely to happen, right, if you have that mindset, right? It’s kind of like that whole, oh, well, I need experience to get experience, and no one will give me the chance to get experience, so how am I supposed to get it, right? It’s like, if you’ve done what I’m describing, if you’ve already taken opportunities to do the work, and you haven’t actually had the title, then you’ve already taken action in that area.

You’ve given it to yourself, which is even better. It’s actually more attractive to a hiring manager when you know how to frame it like that, when you know how to think about it that way, therefore you talk about it that way, right? So what happens when we’re waiting for the title to be given to us is we stay stuck, we don’t move forward, we stop ourselves from applying for things because we think people won’t be convinced that we can do it. We’ll think that people only want to hire someone that had the official title.

We’ll think that someone only wanted to hire somebody because they had the experience, and they have a long track record of success. They’ll think, oh, people only want to hire people like that, so therefore there’s no opportunity, like there’s no point in me applying for this because they’re not going to want me, right? Instead of thinking, oh, well, I’ve already been doing this work, so obviously I should be talking to them about it because I already have experience, even though it wasn’t official, whatever, they can give me the title because I’ve already been doing this work, this is already who I am. So whether they give me the title or someone else does, this is just who I am, right? And if you go into it with that mindset, it’s a totally different conversation, right? There’s no asking for validation, it’s just like, no, this is who I am, this is what I’ve done, this is what I do, this is why I love it, this is why I’ve gravitated towards it, this is why I’m so obsessed with it, and this is why I’ll do such a great job for you, and that’s just it, take it or leave it.

So you see how that’s totally different, right, than waiting, right? You know how I don’t like waiting. So that works a lot better, from my experience, and just like I mentioned, holistically, in the world, you have to believe something before you see it, like, and you obviously already believed because you took steps to do this work before you were given the title. So you are already ahead of the game in your belief. And so thinking you need the title first to convince somebody is what I call a thought error. It’s just like your brain looping, and then you’re not moving anywhere. It’s like, oh, but I need the title first.

Oh, okay, stop all action, don’t apply, don’t do that, I need to get the title first. But you’re not going to get someone to give you the title unless you think of it in a way that they believe you should already have the title, right? So that’s kind of the irony of the whole situation is it’s all backwards, right? You have to be that person first. And for those of you thinking, okay, well, this is great, but I haven’t even done it unofficially.

If you’re like, well, I haven’t even done the work unofficially. Well, here’s the great part about that is your why is going to be so much more powerful, your why as to why you want it, right? So if you’ve ever listened to Simon Sinek, he talks about your why is more powerful than, people don’t care about what you do, they care about why you do it. And he gives a few examples of that.

And the story behind the why is going to be a lot more powerful than someone just listing their accomplishments, right? And for the right fit organization, that’s what they’re going to be compelled by is your why, not your, oh, I’ve done all these things before, right? So like I said, I’ve been hired in several places where I didn’t have all the boxes checked, where I didn’t have all the things accomplished that they had listed on their point, on their job description. And I tapped into my why, right? It was always, why do I want to do this? Why is this compelling to me? Why does this light me up? Because people who are lit up by the work, people who want it really badly, people who are excited about it are going to do a better job. They’re going to put in more effort than somebody who just simply has a bunch of experience and has been doing it for a really long time.

Now, I always say there’s a caveat. Some companies are going to insist on a bunch of experience and they’re going to need that, but those companies just won’t be the matches for you. But it doesn’t mean that there aren’t a lot of matches who want to hire for attitude and train for the skills, right? So that’s just if you absolutely don’t have any of it. And that’s okay. Because I’m like, you know what? I didn’t have it either. You don’t need to have it. It’s not a requirement. You figure it out a different way. And I would challenge that it actually stretches your brain and your resourcefulness even more.

And it can build your belief to create more in your career when you don’t have that stuff, so I moved ahead without having finished my college degree. I actually dropped out of college and my belief was just like, that is not going to be a requirement for me to be successful to make this money that I want to make. It’s just not. And so it wasn’t, right? Because what you believe is true. If you think you can, if you think you can’t, you’re right. Henry Ford, everybody knows that. And if you didn’t, there you go. So why does it work better to think of it this way? Because think of it this way. If you’re a hiring manager, and you’re hiring for, let’s say the position of Q&A, right? Quality Assurance Engineer.

And you have somebody like my client walk in, who says, I’m just obsessed with testing. I’ve raised my hand to test in every possible opportunity that’s presented. And sometimes, to be quite honest, I annoy people because of how thoroughly I want to test things. Right? If you’re a hiring manager, and quality assurance is important to you, what are you going to think about this person’s approach, right? I’m going to be thinking, okay, well, they obviously have made it possible for them to figure out that they love this. Okay, I have no question that they love this. I think I personally think it’s a little humorous that they’re annoying people with how thorough they are about it.

And if it’s said in like a jokey tone, like, yeah, honestly, I kind of drive people nuts with how thorough I am about the testing, but you can be sure that nothing gets past me kind of thing, you know, and that’s a mark of a really good professional, right? It’s like, you want that kind of person in that position, if you hold yourself to really high standards as well. Now, if you don’t, you might be like, okay, no, we don’t want that. And that wouldn’t be the right match anyway. So that’s okay. But that’s why I encourage you to be more of yourself and say, you know, say, if that’s really your experience, tell them that because that’s actually a good thing. So if you’re a hiring manager, and you hear somebody has already been doing the work before they’ve been given the title, you can glean a lot of information from that.

One, they’ve already made the effort themselves to go put themselves in that position. Why? Because they wanted to. They couldn’t help but. They always raise their hand to do that work. They love that work. They’re passionate about it. Therefore, they’ve been getting better at it this whole time. And if that’s what they really want to do, that’s where they need to be. That’s the seat on the bus they need to be on. Right? And therefore, the title is a no brainer. It just makes sense. Oh, okay. Yeah. Right. And you instruct other people how to think about you and how to treat you.

So therefore, if you are thinking about yourself as somebody who is just a Q&A engineer, you always have been, you’ve always put yourself in the positions to do that. And when you discovered it, you felt super passionate. And that’s all you want to do.Then that’s what other people are going to glean from when you talk. They’re going to be like, okay, obviously. Right? If you were to go in and say, well, I don’t really know. I mean, I kind of have been doing some of it, but I didn’t have the official title and I wasn’t really supposed to be working on it. But I just, you know, I raised my hand and I really wanted to. But I don’t know. I mean, because I don’t have the title. So like, what do you think? Right? Then that’s like the opposite. And I do extreme examples.

You’re asking them for title. Right? Is the fact that you have done the work front and center? Or is the fact that you’re afraid they’re not going to believe you front and center in that second answer? Right? So it’s all about how you come across. It’s all about how you feel inside so that you can present yourself on the outside. Okay? So the results we get from that are going to be less. People are going to start to doubt us. They’re going to be like, oh, okay, well, it doesn’t look like she’s very sure of herself. It doesn’t look like she’s really been in that position. I mean, she says she’s done some work on it, but she doesn’t seem very confident about it. Okay. Like, we’ll think about it and get back to you. And then nobody calls you. And if you’re in that other space where you’re like, I’m a Q&A engineer. That’s what I do. That’s what I’m going to do. There’s no other option. That’s what I’m going for. Then you will be just in conversations with people about your new career. That’s all you’ll be doing because you know that in your heart, that’s who you are.

And that’s what you’re meant to do. And you won’t give yourself any other options, and you won’t give other people any other options, but to believe that about you. And then when you find the right fit, it’ll be easier for them to say, oh, yeah, of course, we understand where you’re coming from. We love that. We don’t care that you haven’t had the title before. We love that you’ve been doing the work already. You’re ready. Let’s do it. Right? So the skills that it’s going to take for you to change the mindset is to decide what you want to believe about not having the title, right? It’s like, is having the title really that important? No.

Who said that? Who decided that? Somebody at one point, maybe one person said that to you once, maybe a couple of people said it to you once. Why did they though? And why didn’t you hold your ground stronger as to say, yeah, that’s what I do, right? So like say somebody came to me and they were like, yeah, we don’t really think that you’re a coach. Like before I had my business or whatever, what if somebody had said to me like, oh, we don’t really think that you’re qualified to be a coach.

I would have been like, okay, well, that’s your opinion. I’m going to be a coach anyway. Right? It’s like, well, you haven’t really had the title of coach. And we’re not really sure that you can deliver what we need here as a coach. And I could be like, okay, well, you know what? I understand that. Maybe I didn’t communicate enough or like give you enough examples. Okay, I’ll work on that for next time. But I am a coach. And that’s not for you to decide that about me. Okay? Because who is somebody else to decide who I am and what my title is? What is a title? Anyway, it’s a sentence that someone arbitrarily decided. So you know what? You can decide your own title. And then you can go be that.

So you get to choose. There are no rules. There is no title police across the board. Yes, there’s people who make decisions in each company, but they’re not all the same. And every company is going to make different decisions based on just some person’s opinion. Right? So you get to decide it first. That’s the big takeaway. You decide your title first. And then you find the work and then you get the official title later. This is how it often happens. If you happen to get the title first, great. Congratulations.

I can tell you that when I was working in HR, I moved from admin, like from just doing admin to moving up in HR. And I didn’t have that title yet. Not at all. I was the one who was working with the HR representative in the US. And I was asking her a bunch of questions. And I was seeing how it could be more useful. And I was diving in there. And I was making systems that were making the contracts more efficient. And I was doing all this stuff before I had the title. Because I was preparing for having the title. I’m like, I’ve decided that’s what I want. This is the direction I want to be in. I love talking to people. I love making sure people have what they need. This is what I’m doing. And it was never like, Oh, I don’t know if they’re going to give me that promotion because I don’t have the title. I haven’t ever had that title before. I don’t know if they’re going to give it to me.

No, it was, I’m getting that title. That’s my next step. These are the things I’m doing to make things more efficient. And then I was building that case the whole time to prepare myself to ask for that title, to ask for that raise, to ask for that advancement, because that’s what I had my eye on. I had decided it, right? And had I not got it at that company, I would have gotten it somewhere else because I would have already been doing the work for it, right? It was just not a question in my mind. It was something that was going to happen one way or another, right? So that’s another mindset, another episode.

A conversation for another episode where we just don’t stop and give up. We keep going no matter what until we get it. And when we’re in that constant state of that’s what we do, that’s how we operate, you will end up always getting what you want, right? And I can’t tell you on what timeline you’re going to get it, but I can tell you if you don’t give up, you’ll always get it. All right. So that is, that’s all I think I wanted to say. That’s the episode for today. So I had a cool win just off the cuff to share with you. So I live in Canada. And so therefore from my computer, from my IP address or my browser, I can’t see my US reviews. And so I had my assistant check for me and she was able to see the US reviews. And I had over 66 reviews with a 4.9 rating for this podcast. And she was screenshotting them to me and sending them to me. And I was just like tearing up as I was reading them. Like people were saying, this is a life-changing podcast. They were saying, I’ve landed my six-figure job.

Like I love how Natalie talks about these things. So approachable, so easy for me to understand. Like it’s helping me get my kids applications through college. Like the mindset is being applied throughout my personal life. And anyways, thank you. I just want to say thank you for everyone who has left a review. And if you want to leave a review, please go ahead and send me an email at natalie at asknataliefisher.com with a screenshot of the review. And I’ll send you access to a free course called 8 Reasons Why Smart People Get Interviews But No Job Offers. And you can have that course absolutely free. It’s a $97 value just for leaving a review. So leave an honest review and let me know what you thought. All right. Thank you so much. I will talk to you next week.

Hey there, thanks for listening. If you’re new here, I’m Natalie Fisher. And if you want to take this work even deeper than the podcast, where I help you apply it, and I help you dig into your own personal situation, you have two ways to do that. The first is in my signature program, the six-figure curriculum, where we go through everything you need. And I personally help you weekly to land that six-figure premium role. If you want to take the work on the podcast deeper, the links for those are in the show notes below. To go right away, you can go to www.nataliefisher.ca forward slash start