Welcome to the Get a Six-Figure Job You Love and Thrive podcast. This is episode 244, Seven Ways Clarifying Value Changes the Interview Process. Stay tuned.

Hey there, I’m Natalie Fisher. I’m a six-figure business builder, a mom of a two-year-old, the recoverer of a 10-year narcissistic relationship and now in a super healthy one, and most of all, I’m a human who’s figuring this out with you. This podcast is about how to use your mind to thrive in your career and create the subconscious breakthroughs that you need to get there.

The subconscious blocks that you don’t even know you have to achieving your highest levels of earning and your best zone of genius moments and days in the flow. That is my goal for you. Let’s dive into the episode.

And before we dive into today’s episode, just one more thing. I’m the coach who will always point you back in the direction of your own wisdom. And so before you listen to my episode or anybody’s episode, I want to remind you of that because I know from a lot of personal experience that anything is only as effective as the amount of resonance that it has within your uniquely built brain with how it’s going to blend with your experiences, with your history, with your past, with your existing beliefs.

And so something is only going to work if it feels right to you and you believe in it or you want to do the work to believe in it. And that’s where I can help you. Your inner wisdom is infinitely more valuable than mine or anybody else’s for that matter when it comes to getting the outcomes that you are here to get.

I’m happy that you’re here. I’m glad that we’re on the planet at the same time. And I can’t wait to help you transform your life and career.

All right, this is such a good time for me to record this episode because I just had a client on who was who successful had her she’s in her first two weeks of her six-figure job. And she’s doing amazing. And she was telling me about how she used this process to get to where she is now.

And it wasn’t without challenges, but she is now making more than she’s ever made in a new industry. And you will hear about that because once we get the episode edited and out, you will be able to hear her story, which is very exciting. But anyways, she was telling me about this.

So, I was like, oh, this is the next step in the series, my five-step series. So, the first one was about fear. The second one was about congruence.

And I titled it The Poison That Cancels Out Your Hard Work, Being Incongruent. The first one was about conquering fear. And this one is about the value piece.

So, I called it Seven Ways Clarifying Value Changes, The Interview Process inspired by my client who I just interviewed because she was telling me about how this worked for her. So, there’s a process inside my program and a full bonus that I have on how to clarify your value in different ways. And so, I’m going to give you the gist of that in this episode because this is really at the heart of why people don’t make a decision, right? If it’s a sales process, if you’re trying to sell something to someone, it’s because they didn’t see the value in it.

And I’ve even had people tell me that, honestly. I’ve had consultations a long time ago where someone would say, no, I’m actually not signing up with you because I don’t see the value. And so, at that point, it’s like, okay, they’ve actually given me that feedback.

However, a lot of the times you don’t get that feedback, right? But that is the reason, right? It’s like, they could tell you, oh, it’s because we have someone who’s a better fit, they might say. Or it’s because we have someone who has this more specific experience in this software. Or it’s because this person had this many more years experience.

But it’s not. It’s because you didn’t do a good enough job of showing them the value. And I admit that I have not done – I’ve been experimenting with this my whole career in business too.

And it’s going to land for different people in different ways. And some people are just never going to see it. And those are just not your people.

And that’s okay, right? But there’s always a way to improve this. And there’s always a way to get smarter and better and do it from a different angle so that you have all these ways to do it. So, the reason why this works so well is because, first of all, when you give value up front, it establishes immediate trust, right? So, if you can give somebody something of value, even if that’s just a new thought that they hadn’t thought about before, a new perspective, right? That’s what I do with my clients all the time.

Like, somebody might watch one of my YouTube videos or listen to a podcast and get a new thought. And all of a sudden, they think, oh, that’s a different way to think about that. I hadn’t thought about it like that before.

I like that better. And then all of a sudden, they’re uplifted a little bit. And they’re like, oh, yeah, I’m in a better space.

Like, this is great. I remember one client I had, she was really upset about being unemployed. And she’s like, oh, people are going to think that I haven’t been working very hard or that I’m incapable of getting a job, like all these thoughts about unemployment that she had.

And I was like, what if… Some people call it fun-employed, just as a joke, right? I was just like, some people call it fun-employed because they don’t have to work right now. And it’s like, it’s exciting. And she just burst out laughing.

She was like, oh my god, that’s hilarious. And she thought that was so funny. All of a sudden, she’s in a different space now.

And she’s like, oh, you know what, I could just decide I’m fun-employed. And this is going to be… And she just hired me as a one-on-one coach. And so, she was excited for these new possibilities anyway.

But just one single thought is like, it can create value for somebody. So, even if at the beginning of the interview, you say something that makes somebody laugh or give someone a new perspective, you have then created value for them in a way that you didn’t really probably see as creating value. So, I like to add value ahead of time.

And I know that that’s what’s established my network of trust with my clients that eventually come into my programs and so on and so forth. They might listen to hundreds of episodes, or they might watch hundreds of videos, or they might read so many emails. And eventually, they’re like, okay, I need more of this.

Obviously, there’s more where this came from. And so, that’s one way to establish trust right away is you give someone something of value. And so, in the interview, you can do this many different ways.

You can give them work samples, or you can give them real examples. And there’s so many ways that you can do it, right? You can make them laugh. You can tell them a joke.

You can give them a new perspective on something they’ve been doing. You can ask them a really great question that they’ve never been asked before. There’s so many ways that you can give value that will establish trust, right? And think about it from your perspective.

Like, if you receive value from somebody, you’re now thinking of that person differently, right? You’re now thinking, oh, they’ve given me something. It doesn’t mean you have to give something back, right? But it just means, okay, now I’ve received something of value from this person. Now my thoughts about this person are different, right? So, that’s just the simplicity of it.

Sharing value is going to give somebody a reason to trust you, right? So, it’s like a point. It’s a point for you, right? Secondly, it eliminates the decision hesitation. So, if somebody has met you, say you interview, and they feel like after that interview they received value, they were like, oh, I feel like after that interview, we actually have a new idea.

I’m actually going to go check on that because what that person said was really relevant. Or they say, I’m going to ask about that. Or they say, oh, that’s a good idea.

Why aren’t we doing that? If they leave the interview thinking, wow, that was meaningful and impactful for me and what we’re doing right now, that’s going to eliminate their decision hesitation, which they would have, right? Anybody who’s going to be hiring somebody is going to have decision hesitation. I mean, you would too, right? And you should, right? We all should be careful with who we hire and who we make a commitment to. But when you’re able to give value, that changes their hesitation.

And it brings them a step closer to hiring you, a step closer to making it important that they hire you. Third one, it aligns expectations from the first day. So, when they interview you, it’s like a sample of what they’re going to get when they work with you, right? And so, this is where I have a problem with sales, like in general.

So, your regular sales script is like supposed to work up all this, like, oh, and you can do – like, imagine a sales bullet that’s like, get your six-figure job, it’s so easy. And that’s the promise. Like, if someone just came to you and said, oh, I’ll help you get your six-figure job, it’s so easy.

And you’re not just going to believe that, right? It’s like so many things have been put in front of us these days. So many things have been told to us. So many promises have been promised to us.

We’re not actually going to believe, oh, yeah, I’m just going to buy the program because she said that one sentence, get a six-figure job, it’s so easy. Like, nobody’s going to just believe that, right? So, the way that you give value ahead of time, the experience of you ahead of time is what they can expect when they hire you into a role, right? And I keep using the same example. It’s like, if you’ve listened to this podcast a lot, you have experienced me.

Like, some people have listened to me for hours and told me how many breakthroughs they’ve had from listening to me, and I’ve never met them. But then they finally joined my coaching calls, or they joined my program, and then they’re like, oh, this is just the next level of what I needed. This is so good.

Like, I knew I was going to get good quality because I’d already listened to your podcast, right? So, it aligns their expectations before they even hire you, right? So, they’re like, okay, we kind of know what to expect from this person. They’ve already delivered some value here to us. They’ve already given us these ideas, right? Or they’ve already said these things.

Like, we can align expectations beforehand. And that’s something that you can’t do if someone is being really vague or surface level or just not giving any value. And so, the problem is, if I did my business where I was holding everything back, and I’m like, oh, no, no, you’ve got to pay me for that.

No, you’ve got to pay me for that. No, no, no. I don’t do that because I want people to get results first, right? I’m like, yes, I’m giving away a lot for free, and I’m doing that because I want you to get that value up front, right? But I also know there’s more.

Like, I have unlimited amounts of value to give, right? So, I’m like, there’s more. And there’s more in-depth, and there’s more detail, and there’s more implementation, and there’s more structure, and there’s more of everything inside the container that I’ve created, right? But there’s lots of stuff for free, too, right? So, it’s like, when you interview, it’s like, you don’t want to hold anything back. You want to give them everything.

And then coming from that place of abundance really means you have unlimited ideas. You have unlimited capacity to implement. And I don’t mean like working extra hours.

I mean working smarter, not harder. That’s one of my principles. I don’t believe in like working overtime or working.

I don’t believe that time equals money. I believe that value equals money. So, just to clarify.

So, when you align your expectations with them is by giving them the value up front. So, my client had just said on the podcast that I just interviewed her, just got off our success call, was she was saying that that’s one thing she did, was she really took the time to do the inventory on her own value, right? And she was like, I hadn’t done that before. I didn’t really have a clear picture of what I was offering people or what I could offer people.

And so, she went through the questions like very meticulously and took a very good inventory of her value, right? And then she looked at ways of how she needed to communicate that and she had that toolbox ready, right? So, that’s number three. It aligns expectations. Number four, it increases the ROI for them, right? So, when they interview somebody, they’re going to perceive that they’re going to get an ROI from hiring you or not, right? So, the only reason somebody hires somebody is because they want them to get a result, right? So, the only reason someone hires me is because they want to get a result that they’re not getting.

And I’m very well aware of that. So, I work really hard to get my clients results. And that’s what I’m thinking about.

And that’s what I’m like working on virtually every day. I’m like creating new workshops for them or creating new ways that they can think about something or making things easier for them. I’m going to be doing a resume AI workshop this month as well as adding a subconscious reprogramming to the program itself every month.

So, we’re going to be adding things because I’m seeing that’s what my clients need. That’s what’s going to speed them up even more, right? So, it increases the perceived ROI. So, when someone interviews you and you’re giving them examples of the value you’ve created in the past, you’re providing them with valuable ideas and insights.

You’re asking them really good questions. You’re doing all these things. In their head, they’re perceiving a return on investment from hiring you, right? That’s what they’re thinking about.

They’re like, okay, I’m like, if we get this person working on this, I can see what they’re going to be doing. I can see. Like, they will have an idea formed in their head about what the return on investment will be.

And if you don’t do a good job of sharing that, then they’re not going to hire you because they’re not going to see a high enough return on investment. And I repeat this a lot, but I always put myself in rooms where people are doing better than me, right? It’s something, it’s one of my values from the beginning. It’s always been like, if you want to play tennis, you got to play with someone better than you.

That’s something that I remember Tony Robbins saying on the CDs that I listened to when I was 15 years old. And it’s always kind of stuck with me. It’s like, if you want to be good at something, you got to get in the spaces where people are doing the thing you want and they’re winning at it, right? And they’re doing better than you, right? Over here, that’s saying you don’t want to be the smartest person in the room.

Because if you are, then you’ve got nothing left to learn. So with that, I hear from a lot of people who are making a lot of money in their businesses. And what they will say about hiring is they’ll say, well, I’m not going to hire someone unless I can see that ROI.

Like, unless I can see how they’re at least going to double the salary that I’m paying them, they should be making me money. And if they’re not, then they’re going to be cut. Right? And I’m not saying it’s always like that.

Like, yes, you could get a cushy job where you don’t have to do anything. And like, you could still be getting paid. That’s not who I’m talking to.

If you want like a cushy job where you don’t have to do anything, that’s not my clients. My clients actually want to add value. They actually want to do something meaningful and they want to get better at what they do.

So that then the next time when they need to go get their promotion, or they’re going to advocate for their higher salary tier, they’ve got concrete stuff to back it up. Right? And they can’t just say, oh yeah, I just got lucky because I was getting paid this much. Right? Like, they were actually adding that value.

So it’s like a repeatable process that they can do. So it increases the perceived ROI when you go through the value creation value communication formula. So you take inventory of your value, because most people don’t know what that is.

They don’t really know clearly how much value they bring. And I know that people think this a lot. Like, people will often say, oh, no, no, but I do know.

And they innocently say it. Like, they think they know. Right? But the reason we know they don’t is because they’re not getting the money.

They’re not getting paid what they want. They’re not ultimately getting the results they want. So therefore, they haven’t done that work on a deep enough level.

So it doesn’t really work. So if you think you have, it has to match up with your results. Otherwise, you don’t.

So number five, it shortens the decision-making cycle in somebody’s head. Right? So if they have a clear idea of how much value you’re going to give, and they feel comfortable with that, they’re like, okay, I understand that this person is going to bring this value. They know what they’re doing here.

They’ve showed me these samples. They’ve given me this evidence. I don’t have to think too much to making the decision.

Like, I don’t have to think too much to committing to this person. Like, I think that they’re a good bet. They’re a good person to bet on.

I was actually just thinking, so when I met my partner, he’s very much somebody who has been, he doesn’t like change, right? So he’s kind of the opposite to me, which I think is one of the reasons why we work so well together. Right? Like, he works for the government in a union job, but he works harder than any of the other union people. And he’s been in that same job for 13 years.

He was with the same woman before me for 18 years, which is like crazy. And he would have lived in the same place for however many years. Like, he just, he’s not somebody who will change something unless it gets really, really painful.

And so obviously with his last relationship, this is probably too much information, but I’ll share it anyway, because I’ve gone this far into it. He wanted to have a kid and she just kept saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, we will, we will. They got married and she was 38 and still no signs of wanting to have a kid.

So eventually he figured that out and he beats himself up a lot. He’s like, I can’t believe I fell for her lies for so long. She led me on for so long, but he wouldn’t have left that relationship.

Like if she had agreed to have the kid with him, he would still be with her, right? Even though he was miserable in other ways and he didn’t realize it until he left, but he would have still stayed there. Right? And that’s how we mostly both are, mostly all are, like all as humans, like we’ll stay somewhere even if it’s not good until we absolutely have to leave. Like, I think that’s human nature.

We don’t want to change things unless we absolutely have to. But anyways, my point of the story that I was telling you was that when I met him, it was a clear, like easy decision-making process to move in with him, right? Like it was when he wanted to, I was like, yes. Because I was like, it’s not really that much of a risk, right? He’s like, he’s obviously very loyal.

He obviously knows what he wants. When he figures that out, he goes for it. He’s very like, he’s not going to be making changes.

Like he doesn’t want change, right? So for me, it was like, oh, this is a really easy decision for me to make. And it wasn’t just because of that, obviously. I found him attractive and he’s great.

And we had a lot of fun together. Obviously it was all those things too. However, it was like, okay, I can see from the past that he is going to live up to what he says.

He does what he says he’s going to do. His actions always match his words. He’s never let me down.

If I did feel something was wrong with something he said, he would actually introspectively think about it and, you know, provide a discussion around it. He wasn’t afraid to go there. Any question I asked him, he would answer, even if they were kind of hard questions and maybe a little bit too much for most people.

But like he was willing to go there, right? So this in an interview setting, which I got a little bit off topic here, is that if somebody sees that you’ve been providing clear value for the years that you’ve been working and that they can see that you’ve been consistently providing clear value, that you’ve consistently had good performance reviews, or that people have said good things about you, that you’ve got a track record for doing things on projects, for example. And even if you don’t, right, like you have a consistent record for, you know, being a good person, even just, you know, always showing up, like, this is all stuff that shortens the decision making cycle for somebody because they start to see who you are as a person, and they start to anchor in that safety. And then they’re like, okay, this is fine, we can hire this person.

They’re not a huge risk, right? Like, it’s not like we’re afraid. That’s why people are always like, oh, you don’t want to say you want the manager’s job, because then they think you’re going to move on and be like, wanting something else really fast, right? Instead, they want you to be like, no, I want to get really good at this job. And I want to transform the department.

And I want to do, you know, I want to do really good things here in this role where I am, right? That’s what they want to hear most of the time, right? Because they don’t want to hire someone who’s just going to up and leave in like six months or something, right? So, the more that you can kind of provide that value, and the thing is, the value means different things, right? Like, to me, his steady consistency, like going back to my partner, to me, my partner’s steady consistency, and loyalty and calmness and predictability was very attractive, because I had come from this narcissistic relationship where it was always like, I couldn’t expect anything. I didn’t know what was going to happen, right? I told the story before, but like, he could get mad about anything, right? So, I could be making dinner using the wrong knife. And he’d come in and be like, that’s not the right knife to use.

I’ve told you, you should use the big knife, because that’s so inefficient. And that’s so dumb. And then he would refuse to eat dinner, because I was using the wrong knife to cut some vegetables.

Like, that’s the kind of environment I was in. And so, to me, value was going to be predictability, loyalty, it was going to be like, I don’t have to stress about that part of my life, because I know that that person is who they say, and they’re not going to be like, changing everything all the time. So, to me, that was valuable, right? But to someone else, that wouldn’t be valuable.

They’d be like, oh my god, that’s so boring. But to me, where I was in my life, I was like, that’s exactly what I need. Thank you, right? And it is like, we’ve been together now, four years, it’ll be year number five, I think, in September of 2025.

And it is, it’s the most beautiful thing. Like, he’s predictable, he knows what he wants. It doesn’t mean that he doesn’t, you know, bring me home, surprise, treat, or suggest that we go on fun trips.

Or it doesn’t mean he doesn’t, like, he’s not fun, he doesn’t do fun things like that. It just means he’s not the person who’s prone to like, up and decide he’s having a midlife crisis, and he has to go, you know, dye his hair and like, get a sports car or something like that. He’s like, he knew what he wanted.

He’s like, no, I want a baby. I want to raise my kid. I want to stay in my job, because I love my job.

I want, you know, he was like, this is what I want for my life, right? And so that, to me, was very attractive and very valuable, right? But like I said, to someone else, that might have been very boring. Someone else in a different part of point in their life or a different with different ideals, they might have been like, ah, I want to travel the world. I want to go live somewhere else for six months.

And he would have been like, no, I want to settle down and have a baby. That’s what I want, right? So that wouldn’t have worked, right? But it doesn’t mean that that attitude isn’t valuable. So that’s where it comes down to But if you are clearly providing value, and you’re showing a track record of providing value over the years that you’ve been working, or if you have a short work history, that doesn’t matter.

You show your traits, right? And so they’re going to be very attractive to somebody, right? So if you are always like, oh, I want to innovate and do something new. And I want to create systems and processes around this to make it more efficient. And this is how it’s going to make you more money.

And this is how we’re going to create more customers and make them happier. And that’s going to be very attractive to somebody. And then somebody else is going to be like, they’re going to find the value in somebody saying, I just want to go really deep into this one topic and master it so that we can create one system that will always be the system that everybody comes back to.

And so it’s just going to be different ways to explain it, right? And you want to own your value first. What is it that you really want to do? What’s the value you really want to add? For who do you really want to add it? And how much do you want to be paid for it? And then you go match yourself to those things. And it shortens the cycle of when you do encounter the people, they’re going to trust you faster because you’ve done that work, which is exactly what my client had just demonstrated in her interview.

She was like, I did that work. And it helped me align in that interview. And she also talked about the congruency module and how she did the work to get really congruent in what she was talking about.

And then she was able to get this job to the point where she didn’t even have to negotiate her salary. They offered her the higher end of the range. And she didn’t have to negotiate because she did such a good job of this.

So that’s number five. I took a little while on that one. So let’s just recap.

One, it establishes immediate trust. Two, it eliminates the decision hesitation that hiring managers will always have. That’s normal.

It aligns expectations. So when you the value up front, the type of value you’re going to give in the interview is more of what they’re going to get when they hire you. Four, it increases their perceived ROI of hiring you.

Five, it shortens the decision making cycle. Okay, six, it transforms the objections they might have to paying you more into a discussion about value. So when negotiations do happen, because like I always encourage people to negotiate unless they’ve been offered their number right off the bat.

And then you don’t have to. And that happens. And I know that that’s happened when somebody’s done a really good job of this, like my client just did.

And a few others on my podcast have talked about that too. They’re like, holy crap, I got this offer. And I couldn’t believe the amount.

I didn’t have to negotiate it because it was already what I wanted. But if you do negotiate, it’s not so much as a negotiation, it’s more of a value discussion. Right? So when value is established first, and it’s done well, the conversations shift to from like a negotiation where you’re like trying to fight to get more to like a value assessment.

It’s like, okay, but I’m going to be delivering this value. And I’m asking for this in return. And I think that’s more than fair.

But I understand you don’t trust me completely, because we haven’t worked together. So why don’t we give it a six months or we give it a year, and we can write into the contract that at this point, you’ll raise my salary once these things are met. That’s just one example.

I’m like, you could do that. But there’s like a toolbox of a whole bunch of stuff you can do to ultimately get what you want, right? Ultimately share the value to the point where you get the salary that you want. So it basically transforms any like objections to paying you more any concerns about paying you more into a value discussion.

Okay. And then number seven, it creates self-selected, like very highly motivated employees, right? It’s a win-win for both, right? So if you have presented this value in the interview, and you have negotiated your salary, and you’re happy with what you get, it means you’re going to do your very best. You’re going to do a damn good job.

You’re going to give them your all because you’re happy, right? So this is the mistake a lot of people make. I think they’re like, Oh, well, I don’t want to ask for too much. You know, maybe if I ask for too much, they’re going to take the offer away.

And I don’t want that. And instead of that, what happens, say if you don’t ask for what you want, right? You don’t negotiate, you don’t advocate, you just kind of take what you get and say, Oh, I’ll just do it later. Because it’s too painful to negotiate right now.

I’ll just do it later. Then what happens is, is you end up resentful. At worst, you end up, or is it at best, you end up resentful.

At worst, you end up like not doing a good job, because you’re not being paid. And then you’re like, oh, or no, you’re not being paid enough for what you believe you deserve to be paid. And then you’re sitting there like, I don’t get paid enough for this.

And then you start complaining about it, and you don’t like it, right? So nobody wins, because they don’t win from you doing that, right? So it’s, it needs to be a win-win so that you feel motivated, right? Because if you’re sitting there demotivated, because you didn’t ask for the salary you wanted, it’s not their fault, right? Because you didn’t ask. So you have to be able to ask. It is your duty.

It is your moral duty to ask for the salary you believe you deserve. And it’s your moral duty to back up to yourself that you’re worth that much by sharing the value that you contributed. And this is not something people know how to do.

So people come to me and I help them with this. But because your value is going to be specific to what you have done, and you and your specific traits, and they don’t, they don’t just come down to qualifications, skills, and years of experience. It’s like your specific traits.

What is it about you, right? And I’ve been breaking that down for myself as part of my work is like, what do people come to me for? And it’s like, one thing is like, I don’t let them sit in bullshit for very long, right? So like, the procrastination, it can’t be happening, because I’m going to call you out on it, right? And I feel like one of my clients, maybe I didn’t call her out soon enough, but I was like, it’s taking you two weeks to get those applications in? Like, what have you been doing? And she’s like, well, I just have to get them ready. And I’m just like, no, that’s going to take you like, how long is it actually going to take to send? Like, less than 30 minutes. Okay, you’re doing it after this call.

Like, there’s no point. Like, because every minute that she procrastinates on that is every minute that she’s not moving on to the next opportunities, and she could have had all these interviews lined up. And it’s true, because once she started doing that, she had interviews lined up for jobs she wanted.

So it’s like, this procrastination thing has to stop. But like, one of the, that’s just one example, but like, not letting you sit in your own bullshit for too long. And I mean, like, I have my own bullshit, too.

So it’s like, it’s not like I’m judging anybody, because I need someone to call me out on it as well. So thing is, it’s going to create a very highly motivated employee, and a highly motivated employer, right? So if you are, if you successfully negotiate, and you get what you wanted, and you add the value up front, they’re going to be very motivated to hire you, they’re going to be excited to hire you, they’re going to be imagining the value that you’re going to bring, and you are going to be excited to put your all in because you know you’re getting compensated fairly, right? And those are the seven things, the seven ways to clarify your value up front, and how it changes the whole dynamic of the interview. So what bad interviews look like are, they’re not value focused.

They’re focused on like, yourself in like a negative way. Like, let me give you an example. The narrative of somebody who’s interviewing and they’re not going to do a good job is going to be something like, Oh, I don’t really have that much experience with this.

And I know that’s what it said on the job.d at TurboScribe.ai to transcribe files up to 10 hours long.)