Hello, hello, and welcome to the Get a Six Figure Job You Love and Thrive podcast. This is Natalie Fisher. I’m back today to talk about  the four open secrets to getting hired in today’s market. So I’ve been having a lot of conversations around this,  and I think it’s kind of ironic the way that I position this because they’re called open secrets because everybody knows them.  The thing is that people are not doing them right.  So stay tuned.  Hey there, I’m Natalie Fisher. I’m a six-figure business builder,  a mom of a two-year-old,  the recoverer of a ten-year narcissistic relationship, and now in a super healthy one.  And most of all, I’m a human who’s figuring this out with you.  This podcast is about how to use your mind to thrive in your career  and create the subconscious breakthroughs that you need to get there. The subconscious blocks that you don’t even know you have to achieving your highest levels of earning in your best zone of genius moments and days in the flow.  That is my goal for you.  Let’s dive into the episode.  And before we dive into today’s episode, I want to remind you that I’m the coach who is always going to point you back in the direction of your own wisdom.  And so before we get started, I want to remind you, listen to your own wisdom first.  This means listen to yourself first and me second and anyone else for that matter. Take what resonates and throw away what doesn’t unapologetically. I be mad, I won’t be offended, in fact I will be proud of you for doing so.  Because I know from a lot of personal experience that anything is only as effective as the amount of resonance that it has within your uniquely built brain.  And something is only going to work if it feels right to you  and if you believe in it.  Or if you want to do the work to believe in it. And that’s what I’m here to help you do.  Your inner wisdom is infinitely more valuable than mine when it comes to getting your outcomes and for what you are here to do on planet.  So I’m here to help you  steer that wisdom in the most powerful way possible.  I’m so happy you’re here.  I’m so glad you’re here part of this. I’m so glad we’re here on the planet at the same time.  Let’s dive into today’s episode.  So there’s always things that work, right?  There’s like timeless classic things. super interesting that  when things happen outside of us in the world, people start struggling with something or they start having trouble or they start seeing that something is harder  and they’ll so quickly just go to the mindset  of. It doesn’t work  like  the thing I’ve been hearing people say is referrals  don’t work anymore,  know, or referrals aren’t working  and and it’s. I’m just like, I’m like, what happened to that person to make them think that? Like, what was their experience? Because I have so many questions. I’m like, OK, well, did you get referred and then you blew the interview or did you expect to get referred and then you didn’t get referred? it’s just it’s like referrals work. Of course they do. I just got one the other day. I had just got a couple last week, right? Like this is a large part of how I’ve built my own businesses. happy clients referring other people, right? They’re  like, oh, check Natalie out. She’s got some really great content. And before you know it, maybe in a year, maybe in two years, maybe in a couple of weeks, this person’s like, yeah,  my friend or my colleague recommended you. I’m like, of course referrals work.  So that person had a comment  through their experience that just made this blanket statement that referrals don’t work. And that’s… Just one thing, right? That’s one thing I’m seeing, right? But the open secrets, coming back to that, because I was getting off on a tangent, the open secrets  are that there are things that have always worked. They’re things people have always told you on the surface that are important.  Excuse me. People have always told you on the surface that these things are important. So for one, conversations, talking to other humans. I’ve been saying this for years  and it’s how I’ve built my business. It’s how I landed offers. It’s how I got promoted, like internal conversations with people inside the organization. um It’s a matter of who you’re having the conversations with, who you are in these conversations  and how you’re having them. You know, are you asking the right questions? Are you making the right connection? Are you actually caring and being curious about the person that you’re talking to? Are you having fun with these conversations or are you just treating them like a transaction? And if you’re not getting anything out of them, pouting about it,  because if that’s what you’re doing, then I’m not surprised that they wouldn’t work. Right.  So that’s Open secret number one spoiler spoiler is having conversations  and it’s been my stance since day one and it’s what got me my first job out of college for more than anyone else would expect to make right out of college before even finishing college.  It’s how  I made big quantum leaps in my business.  It’s how I continue to  make  strides is by having as many conversations as I can.  I want to talk to my clients. I want to. I want to be able to find out what’s going on with them and  have a  meaningful exchange where I could be of help and of service to them. And I think that’s why I really like, I like love what I do. I’m like not, I’m never like,  oh, I gotta get on a coaching call. I’m just like, I’m looking forward to my coaching call this afternoon.  I honestly can’t wait to hear what’s going on with people.  And sometimes that’ll be  wins and they’ll be celebrating.  And sometimes that’ll be struggles that they will need me to pull them out of the mud because they’ve gotten themselves into a spiral of negativity sometimes. Right. So I’m just like, I don’t even know what it’s going to be, but I’m there for it.  So conversations across the board  are always going to be a thing that work. It’s going to be whether or not you  are engaging in them in a way that works. Right. So you know, that old saying. um It won’t work unless you do.  Right?  It’s like, it won’t work unless you’re working.  And by working, I don’t mean like exerting effort and working hard. mean,  firing on the cylinders that you need to be firing on to be in the space, to be able to attract and make connections and be happy and  have  meaning to the discussion. Right? Because there’s… You can have a very surface level discussion with somebody. You can have a very surface level conversation and that conversation can go nowhere and the person can leave thinking that it was pretty superficial. You know, they could be they don’t feel very connected  or you can have the same time with the person. You can ask them different questions. You can evoke a different level of curiosity within your body. You can connect with them on a different level and you can have spent that same time. and have a very different impact, right? That person can leave thinking,  really like, I like how I felt around that person. Their energy really lifted me or  brought something to the table for me, or I really liked their authenticity. Like  they’re there. They could leave that conversation feeling like  more deeply connected to you.  They could leave the conversation thinking about you or they could leave the conversation just thinking,  oh, well, I don’t know what that was for. That was a box checked in my day. done, right?  So it’s not about the conversation itself. It’s about  who you’re showing up as, how you are, like how you’re feeling in the conversation, right?  I just had a great  podcast interview this morning with Raquel Castillo, and  she was just such a joy to talk to. I was just like looking forward to asking her these questions. She’s a fractional CMO. um For those of you who don’t know, listen to that. Listen to that episode. She was awesome. And  yeah, the conversation just really lifted me up. was like, yeah, she’s smart. She’s knowledgeable. She’s she’s  doing these these great things for her own life, like  her  like leading the way with her abundance and her success and me being able to learn from her and  help everyone else learn from her  was just a really great experience.  And so  and she complimented me after she’s like, I love how authentic you are. made that. seemed so easy or you made that fun for me, right?  And I was I was like, yeah, like we’re both mutually in the vibe of, you know, just sharing and having fun and in in that mindset.  And and that is the kind of thing that a conversation does that works, right? Like you have a conversation like that and it works. So  that’s the kind of conversation you want to have. Right. And so many people, they just don’t see that they don’t know that.  and they just don’t know how to approach it. So they’re just being like,  am I going to get a job out of this? And if you’re not going to get me a job or a referral, I don’t really know why I’m here or why we’re doing this. It’s just to check the boxes. It’s just because someone told me I had to have conversations.  I’m really not into networking and I don’t really like it. So can we just get this over with kind of thing? And then it’s like and then they’re like, well, it doesn’t work. And it’s like, no, of course it doesn’t work.  Right. Now like that. Right.  So that’s the first one. It’s. conversations,  meaningful,  actual, real human  conversations on zoom, because that’s what we got, right?  If I could do them all in person, I would for sure.  Okay, the second one  is communicating your value. So yes, you’re going to have to communicate your value. And you know this, right? You know this, you already know that you have to communicate your value.  And Yet  a lot of people have no idea for  how to do that.  And here’s what I hear often. They’ll say, I do know how to communicate my value. I do know my value. But I just can’t convince other people  of it. That’s my problem. I can’t convince  other people of it.  And that right there, that language right there tells me. If you think you need to convince, you don’t know it.  people who are really valuable and they know that, they don’t convince.  They just know and they attract.  They are, they tune in for lack of better term. It’s like  you tune in and then things come to you. You see things passing you by,  you go towards them. You respond, right? But you don’t  go chasing, convincing, pushing, right? That’s the opposite.  So here’s an example. Okay. Here’s an example of how that might play out very tactically. Okay, so let’s say somebody asks you, and I think I shared this example previously, but it’s like, let’s say somebody asks you about your specific experience with  some kind of software program or something and you don’t have it, right?  But you’re in the interview, okay? So obviously you’ve checked enough of the boxes where they saw something they liked, but you don’t check this particular box, right? So someone who… doesn’t really know their overall value is probably gonna jump into Convincy Energy. And they’re gonna think they have no choice and they’re gonna think that’s what they’re supposed to do. And Convincy Energy might look like this when they get asked, like, oh, do you know, or what’s your experience with this particular software program?  And they might say, oh, well, I don’t have a ton of experience with that per se, but I do know that I can learn it.  And… I do know that I have some experience with this other thing  and I have like a little bit of experience with it, but I’m sure I could learn it and it would be no problem, right? That’s kind of convincing. Because even when you’re saying it, even when I’m saying it, almost feels like you’re kind of having to convince yourself too, right? You’re like, no, you can do it. You could probably do it, right? Like I’ve seen people in interviews  questioning themselves, right? On the spot, they’re thinking,  yeah, I think I could learn that. Yeah, I could figure that out. Yeah, yeah.  Right. Instead of if you truly know your value, you know that that piece of software, knowing that piece of software isn’t important. That’s not what the actual importance of the situation is, because anybody can learn that piece of software. Anybody, right? We’ve got tons of people  who already have the experience with that piece of software, but that’s not why they’re going to choose to hire someone. They might  think that’s why they choose someone, but it’s not. Like I  always mentioned the Harvard Business Review  study that talks about the lovable fool and the competent jerk. love talking about that. And  it always says that people say that they want somebody who checks all the boxes,  in  like, in theory, that’s what they say they want. But then in practice,  they actually hire the person that they liked the best, that they connected with the best.  And  for other reasons, it’s like an emotional decision. It’s not actually a technical decision, yet people want to think that they decide based on technical.  factors, but they actually don’t. And that’s a study and it’s proven and that was questioning thousands of hiring managers on what they actually said they wanted and then what they actually did in real time. And it’s just fascinating because  they justify it with like they’ll make the emotion decisionally and or  decisionally what the hell am I even saying?  They will make the  decision emotionally  and then  they will justify it with logic, even if the logic is weaker. Right.  It’s actually insane, but that’s proven. Right. So oh if you are a listener and you’re thinking, yeah, but they say they need this and they need this, they need this.  What I want you to be thinking is, yeah, they say that because that’s what they think. But the truth is they they decide emotionally  and we have proof and we have studies that show that.  So  when you know your value. you know that those little boxes and checking those things isn’t as important as  they think it is, right? And so then you can actually bring in the big picture of what’s important  and you can guide them in the direction that they need to go as far as what’s really actually important. So if they’re asking about this particular software program, here’s two options. The first thing I would do is ask, ask them like, oh, OK, yeah, before I answer that, could you let me know?  where that fits into your tech stack, like where are you using it and how does it fit in?  Then you get a response from them,  then you can respond, you can tailor your response better. Instead of just trying to guess like,  yeah, I think I know how to do some stuff in that program. I think maybe I’ve done this before or this before. Like we don’t have any idea. If your answer hits the mark, if your answer lands, we don’t know. It might fall flat, it probably will.  And that’s what happens most of the time. People’s answers are falling flat because they’re shooting in the dark. They’re guessing.  They don’t know what actually matters to the other person about why they’re asking that question. Right.  So  communicating your value is a very nuanced skill. OK. And it’s nuanced because you’re not just communicating it to the same person all the time. You’re not just communicating it to another version of you.  You’re communicating it to. different people out in the world and they value different things. They prioritize different things. They see value in different ways.  And so you’re gonna need to  learn  how to identify who you’re talking to  and how you need to talk to them in order to present value so that you can really stand out to them above the other candidates.  So communicating your value. People say that as a blanket statement. They’re like, you need to communicate your value.  And it’s like, well, what does that even mean? It means different things to different people. So just simply saying communicate your value and then thinking that you are isn’t necessarily going to get you the job. And that’s why people might say, well, I did communicate my value. It didn’t work. I know I have value, but I can’t convince other people of it. Then you’re missing a lot like a lot is missing there as far as to as the nuances of, first of all, from working with thousands of people.  and coaching for literally hundreds of hours, it must be thousands of hours by now, I can identify exactly what it is that you think you’re communicating and how you’re potentially missing the mark, right? And how do I identify who you’re talking to and how you need to talk to that person? And to clarify, I’m not saying that you have to change who you are or change your personality. It’s just positioning yourself differently, right? So I like to use the example of like, if you are making a meal, for somebody and you don’t know what they like to eat, you’re just guessing, right? You might know a few things that they like. Like say you’re cooking a steak for somebody and you know they like steak, but that’s all you know, right?  You don’t know how they like it done. You don’t know what seasonings they like. You don’t know if they like sauce on it.  You don’t know.  Like there’s a lot of things you don’t know about how they like that steak done, right? So you’re cooking a mistake. You’re just guessing, right? And if you cook food or you’re a chef or like, you’ll relate to that example. like it’s like in interviews, we’re just going in, assuming this person likes a steak and serving it to them. And we have no idea if they’re going to like turn their nose up at it, be disgusted by it, be uninterested in it. We don’t know because we haven’t asked them the questions that we needed to ask them to know if they were going to really like what we what we had to offer them. Right. But you’re a steak. You can be prepared, however, but you’re still a steak. Right. So it’s like It’s not about changing the thing, changing yourself or changing who you are. It’s about presenting in a specific way.  So I learned this process when I created  my VCVC method when I went from being a receptionist to an HR manager over four years.  And I put this method into practice and helped people use it so that they can fast track their careers and  like speed through instead of having to figure it out on their own, because there was nobody who taught me this. I just knew that I wanted to get where I wanted to go.  I believed it was possible.  I used coaching to help my belief. I used a lot of the coaching tools that I now teach,  but I developed this method because I needed a method to get there, right? So  communicating your value, that’s open secret too, okay?  Everybody knows you have to communicate your value, but there’s a whole bunch of stuff in there that you don’t know if you’re not earning the money you want, if you’re not landing the job you want, if you’re not getting the places you wanna go, if things are not as you believe they should be,  Like other people are making more than you or other people are getting more opportunities than you. Like  it’s because you don’t know how to communicate your value. You don’t know how to own it. You’re probably blind to it. You don’t know how to communicate it. And you don’t know how to identify who you’re talking to when you actually talk to talk to them about your value. So that’s  the blanket or the open secret to is communicate your value easier said than done.  And then but totally possible,  totally possible.  And then  Open secret number three is tell compelling stories. Again, we know this, right? Everybody knows you got to tell your stories.  So storytelling is a very,  it’s a very deep,  rich topic. And I love it so much.  A story can make you laugh. A story can make you cry.  A story can make you excited. A story can make you depressed.  Like a story. has power over your emotions,  that listing events  or accomplishments in chronological order could never do.  A story  has power over someone’s emotions, if it’s properly, if it’s told right, if the opportunity is used correctly.  And here’s what people don’t know how to do. They don’t know how  to tell the stories because… The way that we’re taught to tell stories and interviews is very like clinical, like the star formula. It’s very surface level formula.  And there’s nothing  there’s nothing’s quote unquote wrong with it, but it just it misses out  on the components that don’t fit into the star formula. So  if for those of you, everyone I assume is familiar with the star formula, but if you’re listening, you don’t know what it is. It stands for situation, task, action, result.  And I would  do a little play on it when I  was teaching about it. And I would say I would add in interesting features. I would say I always make my story more interesting by adding things that like people wouldn’t hear otherwise. Right.  So I called it. Sorry.  Sorry.  But anyways, it’s a very basic structure. And what I’ve learned is, is that  star on its  own  doesn’t have the emotional component. So it doesn’t. specifically tell you to vulnerability  or humor  or anything that would make someone feel an emotion. So you could tell a star story and you could technically tell it perfectly and check all the boxes  of that criteria of the star method.  But the story could be very boring and it could fall very flat,  right? And that’s probably what most people do. And I find that when I’m coaching people,  that is what they’re doing, right? They’re kind of in interview mode.  They think I need to be professional. I need to be like scripted. Ideally, have like  ideally to them, they have like a script and they’re following it and they know exactly what they want to say and what they want to communicate.  And they’re not thinking about like the emotional component. And this is what like I got job offers because I talked about things that were personal to me. And I’m not saying you have to, you don’t have to, but it really helped me to connect with people on that level and share more about me. Like, for example, I shared about my first attempt at running and I had been over 300 pounds at one point and I lost weight and I… talked about my first attempt at running and I told a story about how I was the last person and how I wasn’t gonna finish the race and how somebody came and offered to pick me up  because I was literally like the last person and I was so far behind.  And I just said, you know what, I’m gonna do it. I’m just, I’m gonna finish it. It doesn’t matter if it gets dark, I’m just gonna do it.  And  anyway,  so this story that I told in that interview,  it showed them who I was, it got them, like invested in me.  They were asking me for pictures, like my before pictures. were like, don’t know, thinking back, I’m like, that an appropriate question?  But they were like, do you have any like pictures of you before?  And they were just so curious, right? They were just so like intrigued by my journey and my struggles. And anyway, so  long story short, I didn’t even get this job. But you know what did happen? These people were so like enamored with the interview that we had, even though they didn’t hire me, they recommended me to their friend who had an accounting firm who then offered me a position. I didn’t take it, but that’s the power of a story, right? So that story got me like a referral that then would have got me an offer, right? And it’s like, I could have just told a story about how I struggled in school to… complete an assignment or something and then I had to redo it and then I did it and then I passed. like that would have technically been a story, right? But it would have been boring. It wouldn’t have connected. It could have connected if I had told it in the way that I teach in my program too, but it’s not just in the technical step by step of the story. That’s what I’m trying to say. So it’s like a compelling story makes somebody feel something. even if it makes them just laugh or giggle or smile. Right. Like that’s  that makes a difference. And I’m sure you’re familiar with the with Maya Angelou’s quote. says people will  they won’t remember what you did or what you said or whatever, but they’ll remember how you made them feel. Right.  So if you could make someone laugh, if you can make someone like I’m not saying you should make people cry in interviews, but  make someone emotional or make someone excited or make someone  even just have a light bulb moment or  have them thinking about something in a different way. Like you’re creating what I call exploration and expansion inside my program. That’s a part of what we cover is how to create that in an interview because then they’re thinking, oh, we need this person. We need this person, right? And it’s part of the one of the key elements that gets you hired. compelling stories, open secret number three, everyone knows we need to tell stories. 90 % of people are telling them are missing out the opportunity to really actually make an impact with the stories that they can tell. Okay, open secret number four  is the questions that you ask are actually more important than the questions that they ask you. So maybe this one’s not so open. Maybe people don’t know this one so much, but this is  something that most people don’t really put a lot of thought into.  Maybe they’re like, okay, well, what questions should I ask? Hmm, I should ask about the culture. I should ask about… um Maybe you want to ask about the benefits or the pay, but  you’ve heard that’s not appropriate in the first interview.  Like people don’t know what to ask, right? And you don’t have to know what to ask. Here’s my approach to it is just be like, actually be curious.  So  when I put myself in that curiosity position in the interview. I would just ask questions off the bat and I wouldn’t even know where the question came from. Like that’s how I came up with that word. They’re asking me like, oh, what is what is your experience with this particular software program? And then I would say, yeah, but before I answer that, can you tell me where it fits into your tech stack and how you’re using it right now?  Like that came from genuine curiosity. It didn’t come from me rehearsing it or planning it or being like, OK, if they ask me about this, I’m going to ask them this directly back. It just came from me being like, hmm, how can I actually frame my answer so that I can show them? what they need to see, or do I even have what they need? Like, let’s see.  It has to come from a space of genuine curiosity to then come out as genuine curiosity.  And then when you do it that way,  they start to believe, oh, this person really cares about what we’re doing. They  care about the company. They want to know how we’re using it already  so that they can see what they bring to the table, right?  And if you do want a good question to ask at the very beginning  that you can ask. basically in any interview at any point, you can say, I often recommend that you say something like, I’m curious what stood out on my resume um to you. I’m curious what stood out, because I know you probably have a ton of resumes that you look at.  And uh it’d be really helpful to know what stood out about mine, because then I can help focus in on those areas a bit more.  And that is.  A great first question sets you up for exactly how you want to position yourself as far as  what stood out, right? So what they saw as your strength already, how you can capitalize on that.  That is something that you’re going to want to do. And that’s one question. But most people don’t ask that. Most people don’t ask very many questions at all. Most people aren’t actually being curious. The way that we have been taught to approach interviews  is we’ve been taught  to go in there and just answer the questions. Sit there, be quiet, wait till they ask you, and then try to sound good.  Try um to convince them that you are the best person. Try to get the answer right. um Try to guess what they might want.  Like,  it’s all wrong, okay? It’s all wrong the way that we’ve been thinking about it, which is why most people are falling flat. Why so many people are going on interview after interview after interview with no results.  and getting frustrated about it. And it’s not because they don’t have the value. It’s not because they need more certifications. It’s not because they need more experience. This is the hill I’ll die on  is that they need to they need to actually go back to the things that I’ve talked about in this podcast and master them. So  conversations,  communicating value, stories  and questions. And there we have it. the four open secrets. So  I know that these things work because they’ve been working since I was laid off in 2014.  And they are working now today. One of my clients on our call celebrated two job offers in a day, just last Tuesday.  And she was really leading into the conversations piece. I have another client, she leaned into the curiosity piece.  She  it’s not just about the surface level advice, because the surface level advice is incomplete. It’s just there’s no way that you would be able to to land a job with just these blanket statements if you didn’t have the nuances underneath them.  And that is a journey that you got to go through yourself and you’ve got to learn it yourself. However, there are shortcuts to it. And I mean, not like not I don’t mean like a shortcut, like a magic bullet, like something that solves everything immediately.  But I mean, there’s guidance available, like really good, solid guidance that works.  And that’s what that’s why I love the time that we’re living in, honestly, okay, we have coaches,  we have so many coaches to choose from.  We have  people who are available to help who have  walked  the path you want to walk in. And so just get yourself some support, get yourself some guidance, okay? And it doesn’t have to be from me.  It doesn’t matter if it’s from me, but like get yourself some help. Like I can’t imagine people trying to navigate these things on their own.  And  I hear, yeah, I know that there’s always a thing of like, oh, I don’t have money. And it’s like,  it’s like you either have time or you have money. It’s gonna cost you one or the other, okay? So if you don’t, if you’re not gonna put money in, then it’s just gonna cost you time, right? So if you have lots of time, m then that’s okay, but just know, right?  And so it’s like, it comes down to what do you value more, your time or your money?  And a lot of people, they value  their money more, and they wanna keep the money and hold onto it, and then they just wanna take a lot longer to get somewhere. And that’s just what happens. That’s why people take a lot longer to get somewhere, because they’re holding on so tightly to their money, right? Whereas if you put in some money, you could get where you’re going faster, and then… you would make more money, because money is always replenishable, time isn’t, right? You can always make more money, there’s always more money where that came from. Time is gone, when it’s gone, it’s gone, you never get it back. So  there we have it, the four open secrets. I hope you enjoyed that.  If you want to go deeper with me,  the first step I recommend is to download the value vision quiz. So this quiz  is a set of questions. and you’re gonna answer the questions and then you’re gonna get a score.  And the score is gonna tell you  how accurately you’re valuing yourself right now for your current skillset, where you’re at in your career. And then when you get your score, I’m gonna give you some specific steps  as to what to do next, depending on where you are.  So if you have really bad value vision,  you’re gonna start in one space. If your value vision’s already pretty good,  then I’m going to give you the steps to kind of expand from there because there’s always a next level.  Even if you’re doing great, there’s always a next level. You know that, I’m sure you’re here listening to this podcast because you’re you’re a lifelong learner who loves to  grow and learn and is a growth mindset kind of person. Otherwise, I don’t think you’d be listening to me.  All right. So that we have it. So download the value vision quiz as your first step.  And I will tell you what to do from there.  All right. I will see you, talk to you next week, bye bye!  And here’s the biggest blind spot I see with the people that I work with.  Often they will think they know their value, they will think that they are presenting their value accurately and smartly.  However,  there are things they can’t see, which is why the results they’re getting don’t reflect that.  So you can’t  reflect your value accurately outwardly if you don’t know what it is internally.   And so I’ve developed  quite a few different ways to do that. And the first place to start is by doing an assessment of how accurately you know your own value.  So  with that said, you can go to the link in the show notes and download the Value Vision Quiz.  All you have to do is score yourself.  There’s 14 questions. It’ll probably take no more than five minutes to do the quiz. You  add up your points at the end, and you give yourself a score.  And when you get your score, you’ll be given a step by step of what to do next for where you are.  You’ll know exactly  whether or not you’re valuing yourself accurately or not  and what to do next.  And you can get that quiz right away. You can download it immediately and get your results within the next few minutes.  And then email me and let me know what they were.  And if it makes sense, if you feel like you… would love some extra support with this and you really want to up level the way that you value yourself and the way that you show up in the world and the way that you instruct others to value yourself,  then book a complimentary consult with me and let’s see if we can make some magic happen.