Welcome to the Get a Six-Figure Job You Love and Thrive podcast. This is Natalie Fisher. This is episode 242. This is a part, it’s the number two of five podcasts that I’m doing as part of a series. And this one is called The Poison That Cancels Out Your Hard Work. So stay tuned.

Hey there, I’m Natalie Fisher. I’m a six-figure business builder, a mom of a two-year-old, the recover of a 10-year narcissistic relationship, and now in a super healthy one. And most of all, I’m a human who’s figuring this out with you. This podcast is about how to use your mind to thrive in your career and create the subconscious breakthroughs that you need to get there. The subconscious blocks that you don’t even know you have to achieving your highest levels of earning and your best zone of genius moments and days in the flow. That is my goal for you.

Let’s dive into the episode. And before we dive into today’s episode, I want to remind you that I’m the coach who is always going to point you back in the direction of your own wisdom. And so before we get started, I want to remind you, listen to your own wisdom first. This means listen to yourself first and me second and anyone else for that matter. Take what resonates and throw away what doesn’t unapologetically. I won’t be mad.

I won’t be offended. In fact, I will be proud of you for doing so because I know from a lot of personal experience that anything is only as effective as the amount of resonance that it has within your uniquely built brain. And something is only going to work if it feels right to you and if you believe in it or if you want to do the work to believe in it. And that’s what I’m here to help you do. Your inner wisdom is infinitely more valuable than mine when it comes to getting your outcomes and for what you are here to do on this planet. So I’m here to help you steer that wisdom in the most powerful way possible. I’m so happy you’re here. I’m so glad you’re here part of this. I’m so glad we’re here on the planet at the same time. Let’s dive into today’s episode.

All right, so that title isn’t super positive, but I’m going for curiosity because I know that a lot of people do a lot of hard work and they don’t get the result and they’re very frustrated and burnt out by that. And this podcast episode is going to tell you a reason why that happens, a big reason why that happens. I have very much talked about this a lot. It’s a big part of the pre-work in my program and I’ve gotten feedback and I’ve coached it a lot. So the podcast episode today is going to be about congruence and the incongruence within you is the poison that cancels out the hard work.

So let me explain. I’m also really excited to share with you specific examples of clients who have been incongruent, found their congruent answers and then landed their job offers because of this shift. So, and I have so many that I can look back at from my own life and journey about how I realized I was trying to show up incongruently over and over and that wasn’t working. And as soon as I got congruent, then it changed. Things just flowed easily. Things started to happen easily.

So I want to just bring that point home and share some really, really deep examples from clients because that’s the best way that I learn is through the examples. So let’s start with what congruence is. It is when your mind, body, your emotions, and what you’re saying on the outside all match.

Like you feel it with your whole body. It’s like a full body belief. So it’s like your words and your actions and like your feelings, they all match, right? And what’s happening, especially in a situation where we’re going for an interview, we’re going for a job hunt, or we’re going for a career shift is we get in our heads about what other people are thinking and that throws us off and it’s easy to become incongruent at that point because what happens is, is you start thinking, oh, this person’s not going to like this answer.

They’re not going to believe that this is good enough. They’re going to have this opinion, or they’re going to have that opinion. And we start to assume that what other people think is, first, we assume that that’s what they’re going to think. We make up what they’re going to think ahead of time when we really, we have no idea. We can’t know that. And then we base how we answer on what we think they are thinking. And then we increase the chances of them thinking that because what we expect we get. So we expect them to think, oh, we don’t have enough experience, so they’re not going to hire us. And then we expect that.

So then we could start overcompensating our answers and trying to be more convincing and trying to be more like prove it and, you know, overcompensate. And that actually repels that person because then they are confirming, oh, yeah, they’re overcompensating because they don’t have the experience. And they are then repelled by your incongruence, right? And so, if you go to all this work to get an interview, and then you show up and you’re incongruent in the interview with your answers and how you talk about things, then you won’t get that job. And you could get many, many, many interviews. But if you’re still showing up incongruently, then it’s going to repel people and you’re not going to get the jobs or the offers. You’re not going to be having continued success.

So one very clear example of this was when I had one client, he was an executive, a very high level executive, and he was let go. And he was really struggling with why he was let go because he wasn’t sure. He literally didn’t know why he had been let go. And he was telling me that somebody after he was let go had kind of come up to him and under their breath muttered, I’m sorry, right? And he was like, I just it blows my mind because I had only positive reviews. I had done so many great things for the company. I had driven them forward by years. And he knew he was a good performer. He was a good executive. And he couldn’t understand why he had been let go.

So when he was asked about this in interviews, because it came up, he was like, I don’t know what to say. I’m like telling them that it was mutual or that actually, hang on, I’m going to get an example for what he was saying. So he was like, it was a mutual agreement. I took the, we both felt that it was time for me to move on. Or he would say something like, I’m deciding to take this time to focus on my personal growth and explore opportunities. And it was all in his head.

It all sounded like BS to him, right? He knew that that wasn’t the reason it was. So I so this is what I do with my clients. I always say, tell me the truth, the raw truth, nothing but the truth, without being afraid of me judging you because I’m not here to judge you. I’m just here to help you so you can tell me what your actual congruent answer would be. And so that’s where he told me the story. He’s like, honestly, I have no idea why I was laid off. It’s so frustrating. I did everything that they wanted. I hit all the metrics they wanted.

I exceeded performance reviews. And it must have been some kind of internal politics, some sort of bureaucracy, something that involved someone not liking me, but I don’t know who or what. I just have that clue of this person coming up to me after I was laid off saying, I’m sorry, dude, right? Like, knowing, even with like a little bit of a hint of guilt in his voice being like, oh, you know, I know that you didn’t deserve this kind of thing.

So when he was going into interviews, he was feeling all these feelings about like, confusion and unfairness and all these things. And he wasn’t able to articulate a clear congruent answer to this question because he didn’t want to say that, right? Even though what he told me was the congruent answer. And so I was like, you know what? What would happen if you just told them the truth just the way that you told me? And he hadn’t considered that.

And he said, you know, I don’t even know. He’s like, that would feel much better to do that because that is what happened. He’s like, but I just don’t think they would believe me, right? And so I was like, fair enough, right? So my job is to like help you come to a congruent answer, even when it sounds ridiculous, right? Because it’s fair. Someone might not believe you. So I said, you know, this is what I would do. I would say, you know, I realize that it sounds really ridiculous that this happened, but I don’t know what to tell you other than the truth.

And I trust that you will respect my truth because that’s honestly what happened, right? And so at the end of the day, people can believe whatever they want, but they will believe you when you’re telling the truth. And if they don’t, it’s on them, right? So it’s like, if you are on the other side of this, right? And you’re interviewing somebody, say you’re in the position of the hiring manager, and the hiring manager asks, and you ask the candidate, oh, so what happened at your last position? Why aren’t you there anymore? And they say, I decided to take some time off to focus on my personal growth and explore new opportunities more aligned with my passions. It was a mutual decision.

We both felt it was time. If you get that answer from somebody, you’re going to know it’s BS, right? You’re going to pick up on it. And also, it’s kind of a nothing answer. It doesn’t really tell you anything about the person. It’s just, it sounds like a chat GPT generated answer, right? So you’re not going to believe it either. So I was like, so what would be the harm? And also, it really is indicative of how the person feels.

So I asked him, how would it feel to tell them the truth like you told it to me? In this case, his truth, I didn’t think he needed to really finesse it or change really the words around it. I just recommended he added, look, I realize you might not believe it because it sounds kind of ridiculous, but honestly, that’s what happened. And then I said, you can even add on like, so this has really taught me how important transparency is in an organization, because I realized that that wasn’t a culture that I was in.

And I really feel like being transparent with the people that you work with day to day is a really important value for me, right? So even just by saying what happened, acknowledging that it is out of the norm, and then saying, and this is now what I’m looking for, because this is really important to me. It shows that you’re someone who has raised their standards, who has learned from that, who is there to now find a place where you have mutual respect and where that won’t happen to you again. And so all these things that he realized that he could now say, and it was kind of like a sigh of relief. And he was like, oh, yes, that sounds so congruent to me. That is totally what I’m feeling, what I would want to say. And sometimes it’s like people just need permission to say it, to say the truth, right? Because really, he was thinking, oh, my God, they’re not going to believe me.

They’re going to think I’m full of shit. And I’m like, well, when you say I decided to focus on my own personal journey, and it was mutual, they’re going to think you’re full of shit, too. So it’s like, which one is going to give you a higher likelihood of connecting, building trust, creating rapport, and allowing for an explorative, expansive discussion when you add on the part about, you know, the transparency being really important to me, and really making an effort to be real with somebody, which one is going to be more likely to have them hiring you, have them enrolled with what you’re saying and your values and wanting more of that, like, which one is more likely, right? So that’s a very clear example of how congruence can cancel out your hard work.

Because if he kept going to interviews, saying the same thing, not feeling good about it, just continuing on believing that he couldn’t say the real thing, because people wouldn’t believe him, he wouldn’t have landed the job. So shortly after this, he went on interviews, he got another executive position, and he emailed me and he said, I got the executive position. Thank you so much. And so this is just one of those clear instances where he didn’t know he could tell the truth. He didn’t feel good about it. He hadn’t really considered telling the truth.

He was thinking, like, it was just a default thought, like, they’re just not going to believe me, right? And so when we take that apart, and we’re like, well, they’re not going to believe the other one either. They’re just not going to hire you. It’s like, what would you rather be? Would you rather be real or fake, hoping they like you? Or real, putting it all out there and being like, this is me.

And then the right person is going to really respect that. And if they don’t respect your real answer, then they’re probably not the right fit. Like if they’re like, oh, we’re not transparent here. So they’ll be thinking, oh, he won’t like it here because we’re not very transparent. Then it’s not gonna be the right fit for him anyway. So there’s a good example.

Now there’s other instances where you want to be congruent, but your answer isn’t very, it doesn’t sound very good, right? Because maybe you haven’t fully healed from it. You haven’t, or the way that you’re saying it doesn’t make you sound very good, if we’re being honest, right? So I had another client who it was also about talking about leaving her past situation. And she had quit because it was a toxic environment. And she realized it and she got out of there. And so she didn’t want to say that because she said, she came and she’s like, I don’t think congruency is going to work in this situation. And I’m like, okay, tell me why.

Tell me like what your congruent answer would be to this. And she’s like, well, my congruent answer was that I had to get out of there because it was really toxic. And it was hurting my mental health and the environment was just awful. And I was treated terribly. And I just got out of there. And I was like, okay, I see what you mean.

I see why you don’t want to say that in an interview. And I agree, right? Because you don’t want to badmouth your past employer to people that you don’t know, right? Like they’ve just met you. So she was thinking, well, if I say that, they’re going to think I’m a bitch, right? Or they’re going to think that I’m the problem that, you know, I’m the one who’s trashing them. So that doesn’t make me look good. And so this is a different situation. And it’s going to take a different thought process to get her to a congruent answer.

However, yes, congruency still works, but it has to be done in a different way, right? So the goal here is to kind of – I was acting kind of like her ethical PR person where I would be like, okay, we want to get that point across in a way that highlights you as the powerful one, right? So I use the example of my ex. If you know me, you’ve been listening to this for a while. I left my 10-year relationship with a narcissistic ex.

And even saying that, people might judge me. Like I’ve had comments on my LinkedIn where people say, well, we’re too quick to slap on the word narcissist when really it could be this, or it could be that, or maybe it was you that was the problem. Like people don’t know my situation, right? So they will make judgments about it.

So it’s different when you’re sharing with someone that you know, who you know you can trust, and who you know will believe you and is on your side, versus someone who you’re just meeting, and they’re still making up their mind about you, right? So congruency is available, but it’s just going to sound different. So this is what I would say to someone, say I was dating, and I’m talking to someone about my past relationships. And they asked me, oh, so what happened with you and your ex? Like I wouldn’t say to them, oh, he was an asshole narcissist, and I had to get out of there.

Like I wouldn’t say that, right? So what I would say instead, which is also totally congruent and true, is I would say, I realized that I had outgrown the relationship, and that we had just grown, like I had grown and done a lot of work on myself, and he hadn’t. And I realized that I was no longer a fit to be with him. Like we were no longer a match.

Like the old version of me was a match for him, but the new version of me was not. And I might even say, if I were to meet him, like it kind of landed in my body when I heard on a podcast, like if you were to meet this person today, would you be attracted to them? And my resenting answer was no. So it was just, and this is all coming from a neutral space, a space of facts, a space of reflection, a space of, you know, emotional maturity, not like a place of, f him, he was such an asshole, I’m so glad I left.

Like it’s not like that, right? It’s like, I outgrew that situation. And while it was painful to leave, it was right, and it was necessary. And, you know, and it also comes kind of with the undertone of like, and if you don’t believe me, that’s okay, because that’s the truth. And if you don’t like it, that’s okay, because that’s the truth. And it’s like, I’m really like owning my responsibility and my decisions to leave. And I’m proud, like I’m talking about it with an undertone of pride, but not like arrogance or superiority.

It’s just, it took a lot of courage, but it was time for me to move on. And yeah, like, and I’m not saying anything bad about him. Notice that I’m not saying anything bad about him in that situation. And it could mean many things. Like it could mean that I wanted to travel the world, and he didn’t. And like, that would mean different things.

Like that wouldn’t mean he was a bad person, right? And even when I say it like that, I’m not saying he was a bad person. I’m just saying he was no longer a match for me, right? So what I recommended for her, we came up with an answer for her. And it was along the lines of, I outgrew that position. And I realized that it was no longer a match for me to be there. And this is what I’m looking for now. And this is what I’ve learned. And this is what I’m excited about, right? And she was able to feel really good about that. That landed in her body. And she was like, okay, I get it.

I can definitely say that. That feels good, right? And we would iterate like on coaching calls, if somebody wants to say something, but they have trouble finding the words, like there’s a bazillion words in the English language that we can use. And there’s a bazillion ways to talk about something in a way that lands and feels really congruent for you. And I consider myself pretty masterful at this. This is my old job. This is what I’m doing every day.

So when you want to say something and you’re having trouble with that, that’s one of the things that I help do. And I love it. Because that, when you say your truth in a way that is congruent, you don’t feel like you’re lying. You don’t feel like you’re hiding anything. You feel like you’ve got a sense of pride for what you’re talking about. Then that’s what’s going to build that trust and rapport with the other person.

You’re going to get trust points. They’re going to say, oh, wow, that person’s been through some stuff. They have done some personal growth. Okay, they’ve been around the block a few times. This is not their first rodeo. And if they’re the wrong person, they’re not going to resonate with your answer. And that’s always a good thing. The goal is not to get the offer all the time. The goal is to find the best match for you, right? It’s like when you’re dating, it’s not, the goal is not to get everybody to like you all the time.

It’s to discern and sort who’s good and who’s not good for you, right? Who’s a good potential candidate for you and who’s not, right? That’s the goal. And we miss that a lot in job hunting. So, those are two really good examples that I thought of for explaining how you’re congruent.
And also, like, where you, how you share things depends on your level and your degree of trust and familiarity in the relationship. So, like, you might tell someone that you are friends with the different version, like I said, like the more raw, honest version, but you might tell someone who you’re just meeting, like, slightly different version of the same thing, but you can’t feel like you’re lying about it. It has to be coming from this is still real.

It’s just like the ethical PR version of it, right? So, that’s, and again, if she had continued to go to her interviews, not congruently answering, and if she would, if she were to say, again, like, what we’re told to say that’s incongruent with many people is, we mutually agreed. It wasn’t a best long-term fit for me. And I’m grateful for everything. And that’s it, right? Like, I’m excited for what I learned. And if you can say that really congruently, then that’s okay. Like, it’s what you can say congruently.

It’s not about the words so much themselves, right? So, another misunderstanding people have about congruence is they think that you still have to be perfect, you still have to have really good answers, and you still have to have, like, an era of confidence, no matter what, right? And that’s also not true, because that means I wouldn’t have still landed a job offer when my face was shaking. And I talked about that in a recent video I made for YouTube about nerves. And I just, I said, I’m like, because my face was shaking in the interview, I was really nervous.

It was a panel. There was like four people all sitting in this boardroom. I’m on the other side. I was nervous. And they said to me, they’re like, are you okay? One of the ladies in the interview, she’s like, are you okay? And I said, yeah, I’m like, if I seem nervous, it’s because I am. And I just kind of said that with the realization that I must be looking really nervous if they’re asking me if I’m okay, right? And so, we all laughed after that.

The ice broke, and it went on. And I was still able to come up with my answers. So, then I landed the job.And I posted this on YouTube. And people said, yeah, but I freeze in interviews, and I can’t come up with the answers. And I’m like, okay, that’s a different podcast episode.m That’s like a nervous system mindset issue. But I do get that. But anyway, the point of this was that congruence can be you saying, I’m nervous. Like, honestly, because that’s what you’re feeling. That’s what you’re portraying. Instead of trying to say, oh, no, no, I’m fine. I’m fine. Like, when you’re not. And it’s like, you don’t have to be fine all the time.

You don’t have to be confident all the time. What actually creates a connection is someone seeing your humanness and seeing you be okay with your humanness. And that, I swear, has gotten me so many job offers, so many opportunities. And also, like, when you’re with somebody, and if they’re not able to see your humanness, they don’t want to, they want you to cover it up. Like, they’re not the right person. You’re not gonna be comfortable around them.

Like, my partner now, he is the best at just forgiving human traits. Like, when I first met him, I was, like, kind of pushing to see how much I could talk about. But there was just no, like, he didn’t have any reactions to anything I said that were, like, there were some things I was like, oh, I didn’t want to tell him that I had been married before. Like, I had been married for six months when I was in my early 20s. And it was only for six months. And I didn’t want to marry the guy.

I just felt pressured. And I allowed myself to be pressured. And anyway, we got divorced after six months. And I didn’t want to tell him about that, because I was embarrassed. And I thought he was going to judge me. And so, I was really scared to tell him that. And he just responded with, he’s like, oh, well, you know, that happens. We all make mistakes when we’re young. Like, we all make mistakes anyway.

He’s like, you’re human. Yeah. Like, he didn’t care. It was just like, okay, whatever. And that just made me relax. Like, my nervous system relaxed. It’s like, okay, like, he really doesn’t have any judgment towards me. Like, he sees me as a human, and he accepts me as a human. And that was so comforting. And I believe that in job interviews, and in places where you, the spaces that you occupy, you want to have that feeling too. And that’s available for you. You want to have where you’re like, I’m a person. I’m trying my best here. I’m doing everything I can. I want to be the best. I want to make everyone happy. I want everyone to like me. But sometimes, I’m going to fail.

Sometimes, I’m going to make a mistake. And that has to be okay. And if it’s not okay, then I can’t be around you. Like, the space where I live at now, right? So, it’s like when people trash me for typos, they respond with like, I’m not going to buy from you. You have a typo in your email. I’m like, you know what? See you later. Get off my list. If you can’t handle a typo, like, you’re not going to like me or anything I do. So, that’s really the empowered place that I come from now. It’s like, really? You’re nitpicking my typos? Come on. So, that’s what congruency is. It’s not being perfect all the time.

It’s not having the right answers all the time. It’s finding a way to be honest and real to the point where you are proud of yourself for whatever you did in the past, and whatever you made it mean today, and the fact that you’re here, and you’re learning, and you’re moving, despite whatever happened, right? And the other issue that comes up is if you are still feeling really raw about a situation, and you don’t want to talk about it, like maybe you want to avoid it, because sometimes you could be feeling so bad about it that you might even start crying when you talk about it, or it’s still really, really emotionally raw, then that just means that you need to have a coaching session on it. That’s what I would do.

You need to maybe process some emotions around it, or you need to clean it up. You need to do some subconscious reprogramming of it, changing how you see it. And that’s just some inner work that can be done. It’s not that difficult. It’s not a big deal. You just need to be willing to face it.

And a lot of people can’t and won’t do that, and therefore, they’ll just keep trying to go to interviews, answering things incongruently, and failing, and being like, ah, this is so frustrating, right? So, don’t let incongruence cancel out, you know, all the work you did to get the interview. Like, when you go to an interview, you want to make sure that you are extracting and giving the most value that you can from that experience, because it’s an effort, and it’s work to do. And so, you want to get the most bang for your buck whether you get the job or not, okay? That’s how I feel.

I’m like, if I’m going to do something, I’m going to put my best into it, because I want to be able to take this with me into the future. I want to be able to use it with my clients, with myself. Like, I don’t want this just to be some wasted thing.

So, that’s why extracting value from failures, extracting value from places where I wasn’t congruent, or I found myself being incongruent, I want to ask myself, why? Why did I feel afraid to say that? Why didn’t I do that? And see how I can be more congruent in the future, because that is what is ultimately going to connect me to the people who I’m meant to be connected with, and you to those who you’re meant to be connected with. All right, thank you so much. Please leave me a review if you haven’t, I would really appreciate that.

You can also check out YouTube, I’m making videos over there again. And I’ll see you on LinkedIn, and next week on the podcast. Hey there, thanks for listening. If you’re new here, I’m Natalie Fisher. And if you want to take this work even deeper than the podcast, where I help you apply it, and I help you dig into your own personal situation, you have two ways to do that. The first is in my signature program, The Six Figure Curriculum, where we go through everything you need, and I personally help you weekly to land that six figure premium role.

If you want to take the work on the podcast deeper, the links for those are in the show notes below. To go right away, you can go to www.nataliefisher.ca forward slash start.