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This is the Get a 6-Figure Job You Love podcast, episode 33, Shame and Tolerance.
Hey, there. Welcome to the Get a 6-Figure Job You Love podcast. I’m your host, Natalie Fisher. I’m a certified career mindset coach who also happens to want to skip all the BS and get to what it really takes to create real results for you and your career. On this podcast, you will create real mindset shifts that will lead to big results and big changes in your career and your income. No fluff here.
If you want to get a six-figure job you love and create real concrete results in your industry and make a real impact, you’re in the right place. Are you ready? Let’s go.
Hello, hello. Welcome to the podcast. So I recorded this one already once, but it turns out that the proper microphone wasn’t on. So the second time, it’s going to be even better. So this is a topic that I’m super, super passionate about and the reason is because it can make or break your decisions in life if you listen to what other people say.
And if you allow other people to shame you or make you feel bad, if you allow that to happen then it’s going to change your behavior and it’s going to change ultimately what you end up doing. So you might be at different stages with this, but I know that every single one of my clients has gone through this. I have.
So I feel super passionately to talk about it today. I’m going to give you some examples and some ideas of how you can handle it, when someone “makes you feel bad”. Because sometimes when people say things it’s easier to feel bad than it is to feel good, and that’s what I’m going to show you how to do. So when we’re out there having conversations with people, we’re having interviews and we’re looking to make a career change, or we’re moving into a new role, or we’re getting a promotion. Whenever we’re doing something that’s challenging, and it involves us to go out there and put ourselves out there in a big way, then inevitably sometimes we end up talking to people that are not supportive, right?
They might look like they’re supportive on the outside and they might want us to believe this, but it shows up in a different way. So it’s something that leaves you… You’ll know if you’ve had a conversation like this, if it leaves you feeling deflated, discouraged, feeling like trash, like you want to give up, like you’re small and insignificant and incapable, and like you should just pack it up and go home.
If you feel like this after you have a conversation with somebody, then that’s a good indicator that they have shown you something about yourself that we need to take a look at. And it will show up from them as they’re trying to be helpful. So you know that it’s happened if they speak to you in a way that kind of pretends to be helpful, but really is not encouraging. So they pretend like they have your best interest at heart. It comes off as like, they want to warn you of what’s coming. They want to put you in your place so that you can do better, so that you can achieve your goals or so they want you to believe.
But there’s an easy way to tell a loving supporter from an abuser, for lack of a better word. A loving supporter offers information and a clear direction forward. So they might say, “Hey, this is what you’re doing now. I think that these things would help you get there faster, right? Maybe we should do this because I want you to have more of what you want, I want you to do it, and I know you’re going to be able to, and I know that you’re worth it.”
An abuser will say, “Yeah, it’s too late. It’s just not how it works in this industry.” This is probably going to be too hard. This needs a lot of work. You messed up. The underlying tone of it is like, “Oh, you should have done this differently. You should be farther along. So why don’t you go crawl under a bed and die in the corner?” They don’t say that, but that’s kind of how it makes you feel.


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A loving supporter wants you to move forward and they will give you the energy to move forward. An abuser wants you to freeze and will tie your hands up so that you can’t move. The information presented looks very similar, but the direction that it points you in emotionally could not be more different. So let’s make a pact. No more listening to abusers. Okay? It doesn’t mean that they’re not going to come into your path. They’re going to be there. But here’s an example.
Let’s say somebody really wants to be a doctor, right? And they apply for medical school, but they don’t have the grades they need yet. So there’s two ways that the person in the admissions office could approach it. Now, if the person in the admissions office is more of an abuser, maybe they’ve got something going on in their lives, they’re not doing the best. They are just thinking like they’re offering help, but this might be how they approach it.
They might say, “Yeah, sorry. Your grades aren’t strong enough. And to be honest, we have so many successful candidates that have so much more experience than you and have such higher grades that it’s probably going to be really difficult for you to get in. They have more extracurricular activities as well, and they’re just way farther ahead than you. Plus by the time you get all this, you’re going to be in a different age bracket, and our students mostly come in mostly are younger. So with where you’re at right now, to be honest, you might want to consider something else like trying to be a paramedic or something like that, because at this point I just don’t see how we could accept you.”
So that’s how an abuser might sound, right? And you can see the tone and you can see the message that they’re giving you is pretty discouraging with the words that they’re using. The exact same information could be delivered in a different way from a loving supporter. So they might say, “So the standard for our grade is this and you are here. Very neutral. They’re just kind of showing the facts. You need this, but you have this. To have the best chance of getting in, when you apply next time, you’ll need to retake these classes.” And they’ll give them the list of things they need to do.
“And you’ll need to achieve these grades. It also wouldn’t hurt if you had some more extracurricular activities, for example, and then you’ll be able to apply next year. Not everybody gets in the first time and doctors are needed now more than ever. So don’t give up and you’ll get in. It’s just a matter of time.” Same exact message, right? So they’re just saying, this is what it is. This is what you need. This is what you need to do to get there.
So what I’m suggesting you do is you need to adopt the supporter thinking no matter what anybody says. No matter if you come across an abuser, you need to be your own supporter, right? So you need to have that dialogue for yourself. So if they tell you, “Yeah, sorry. It doesn’t look like it’s going to work because this isn’t this.”
Then you go, “Okay. So what do I need? Okay.” And it’s very different because you’re going to be like, “Okay.” If you know, this might happen, like say you’re going to run into an abuser before you even try to get where you’re going, then you can have this already planned out. You’re like, “Okay. Well, I’m just going to go right to what I need to do, right to what’s necessary, and then I’m going to get to work on that.” You don’t even have to pay attention to what the abuser is saying. You don’t have to give them any of your energy and attention.
But what happens is we’re caught off guard and then we often get sucked down and believe them, right? And not everybody does. I feel like it can go both ways. Sometimes you don’t believe them, but you still feel bad about what they said and there’s still some thought that’s causing you to feel bad about it, but you’re like, “Yeah, I don’t really believe them.” You’re like in your gut, in your heart, you’re like, “Ah, that’s not really true.” But it still makes you feel bad what they said, right?
You underestimate the fact that, that will slow you down even if you’re feeling bad because of what they said, right? So what ends up happening is most people, they’re going to take that information


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from the abuser and they’re going to be like, “Yeah, maybe they’re right. Maybe I should lower my expectation. Maybe I’m not cut out for this. Maybe I’m not going to be able to do it.” And they justify it being like, “Yeah, he was just trying to help. And this is like okay. This is just the reality of the situation. This is the truth, I guess. I mean, maybe I really should be lowering my expectations and maybe I was getting my hopes up for something that’s never going to happen.”
You might go down that path, and a lot of people do. My clients have almost done that. I stopped them, but it’s really, really ridiculous how much attention we put on someone else who barely knows us at all. And it could be someone you know, but it’s more likely someone who doesn’t know you and who you’re giving so much influence over your life and your power and your decisions. So it throws you off mostly. And it starts to look like you get on the phone with them.
So say you’re having a conversation with somebody and you get caught off guard by somebody like this, and you probably just start, continue on the conversation. You’ll start to feel kind of down throughout it, and then you’ll just be like, “Yeah. Okay, thanks. Thanks for giving me that feedback. I didn’t think of it that way.” And you’ll just go along with what they say, and then you’ll be like, “Yeah, I guess what they’re saying does make sense.” And then this throws you off and then you get off the phone and you feel bad.
Then you just feel like there’s this big, heavy thing in your chest and you’re like, “Okay, I’ve got to figure this out. I’ve got to do this.” Then you’re more likely to just slow down and give up. It’s like taking the air out of a balloon, right? But then if you are your own supporter and you already know this might happen, then you don’t have to waste any time when the abuser speaks to you or when you run into somebody like that. And it will show up in different ways. So they might show up on the call and you think it’s a call to figure out if you’re the right fit or have a friendly conversation, and then they just want to get the call out of the way and they’re very brash with how they start the conversation.
And then they’re like, “Okay, what’s your experience? What books have you read? What have you done? Impress me.” They set the conversation up like that. And then you automatically go into that role of trying to impress them, trying to live up to whatever they are expecting. It’s like when someone says, “Okay, you got two minutes, go.” And you’re not ready. You’re going to be under pressure for coming up with the best thing you could say in those two minutes. Right?
So that’s another way that they might do it, right? So why this affects us so badly is because deep down we think that there’s a little bit of truth to it. We feel bad because we’re afraid they might be bright because we think deep down that they do have a point and we’re human, and it’s poking at our own self doubt that was already there.
So it makes us feel bad because we believe it. Even if we believe it just a little bit or we believe it could be possible that they’re right. And sometimes we always thought it was like this, and we always kind of have that little doubt. And then this just brought it right up to the surface, right? And you can tell by the intensity of how you feel, if it really was there and it just was brought up.
So these people are very effective in controlling and influencing your thinking because you were already afraid of this. You already had a doubt. So it’s like, if you already have that self-doubt, it’s very easy for someone to bring it up in you, right? So for example, if someone comes up and touches your arm and they just touch your arm and it’s not injured or hurt or anything, it’s not a big deal. They’re just going to touch your arm. And you’re going to be like, “Oh, okay. I noticed you’re touching my arm.
But if you have a huge gaping wound on your arm and it’s already open and it already hurts if someone touches it, they could just come up and touch it with a hair and you would freak out, right? So it’s kind of there’s already something there which is why it kind of affects us, the most. So when it


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affects us really, really heavily, it’s because we already had that there. So when something triggers you, it’s because you are afraid. It’s true.
So that is why, it has such a big impact and why it can have such a big impact on some people. So another way to prove that it’s because it was already something underlying within you is for example, let’s say you do not have blue hair, like your hair is brown or blonde or normal color, but somebody comes up to you and they say, “I hate your blue hair. It’s so ugly. Why did you do that?” But your hair is not blue, right? And you know that, but they are seeing it in different ways.
So you’re not going to be like, “Oh, you’re right. My hair is awful. I feel so bad. I’m so ashamed.” You’re not going to feel that because you know your hair is not blue. So simply, they are seeing the world in a different way than you, and you’re more likely response is going to be like, “That’s really confusing. What do you mean? I don’t have blue hair.” Right? So if you’re applying for medical school and they shame you and they want to tell you that it’s not going to be possible and that you’re not going to be able to do it, and you know for a fact that you’re doing it no matter what, then you’re going to be like, “Oh yeah. You think that, but you’re just confused. Thanks for telling me what I need to do next. I’m going to go do it.”
So you’re just going to interpret that information totally differently because you see the world in a different way. And you get to choose how you see your future. Right? And it’s not up to them. When this happens, what we end up doing is we stay on the call. We’ll stay in the conversation. We’ll start to feel bad as the conversation goes on. We’ll continue the conversation and we’ll start to thank them. And even be appreciative that they took the time to tell us this.
We kind of feel like they’re humbling us or bringing us down to earth. And we start buying into their story as though they’re right, and we’re lucky that they’re here to tell us this. Sometimes this happens. This is the extreme. You might not be, but I’ve seen this happen with clients. They’ll be like, “Oh, you’re right. Thanks for the feedback. I guess I was kind of delusional.” So you will get off that call feeling awful, and you’ll say to yourself, “Yeah, but they’re probably right. I know that they’re just trying to help me. They have a lot more experience. They know what they’re doing. They’ve seen a lot of candidates come through here. They must know.”
Just like the doctor admission person might think they might think they’ve seen all the applications. They’re probably way better than mine. So that’s where your brain will automatically start to go. And that’s how we try to give up on ourselves. That’s where it starts. Right? And then it’s hard to get that momentum back if we go there. So why this is a problem is because ultimately, and I don’t swear on the podcast very often, but this is an exception. Sorry, mom. Who the fuck are they to decide what’s possible for you?
Nobody. They are not. They are not able to decide what is possible for you, unless you allow them to. They are not living your life. They are not you. They don’t get to decide or have a say in what you believe about yourself and how strong your belief is. And they don’t get to have a say about your capability. We go normally into this negative thought spiral and we get discouraged because we kind of believe them. Then we lose momentum, making it harder on ourselves because we’re putting so much attention on what they said.
Basically, without knowing it. We let others influence our decisions to the point where we could literally give up on what we want to do. And this has happened before. I can tell you that the world is missing a lot of doctors, is missing lawyers, is missing people who wanted to do great things because somebody said something to them and they didn’t know they had a choice.
So they don’t get to influence your decisions. Other people do not get that. They don’t even know you, right? They don’t know you. They don’t get to make the career decisions for you. And
a good


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indicator is that anybody who’s doing more than you, anybody who is in the field doing the work themselves to get somewhere bigger, they are not going to be criticizing you. They’re not going to be shaming you because they know what it takes. So that’s another thing to consider.
So what ultimately happens if you give this information, any airtime at all, is that the information takes a deeper and deeper root in your head, and you end up taking on this narrative and it’ll be harder for it to go away. You’ll end up lowering your expectations. You’ll end up settling, giving in, changing your entire direction or your entire goal, slowing down, feeling depressed, feelings of you’re not good enough, or you can’t, or let’s make a new plan. Basically, it’s like deflating a balloon. It’s like slashing your tires.
Marie Forleo says this. It’s a very graphic way to think of it. But she says, “Would you let someone come into your living room, take a dump and leave?” Basically she’s saying when we allow this, this is what’s happening in our mind. We’re letting someone come into our mind and dirty it all up and then leave. Because they’re gone. They’re not thinking about you anymore. They’re on to their day. And you’re still there stewing and what they said and it affects you so much more than it affects them.
So this is just a bit of another analogy to get the point across to you. But an alternative solution here is, first of all, what I mentioned before is if you already decided that you’re 100% committed and in full belief that you know that you’re going to make this happen because you’re in control of it.
You just be like, “Okay, what do I need to do? Perfect. I will get to work on that. Sign me up.” Like for the doctor example, you’d be like, “Okay, I’ll take those classes. I’ll get those grades. I’ll do it as many times as I need to until I figure it out.” No question, no doubt. And you get to trust yourself that you’ll get the result because you feel in control of it. And I have another podcast on how you can feel in total control of your result. It’s going to be called Career Authority. So check that one out when it comes out.
So to just get you to the side that you’re not available for other people’s shame is the goal of this podcast. So sometimes we think we need permission. We’re like, “Oh, well, I probably should listen to that person. They do know what they’re talking about. Well, I’m giving you permission to not.” And I’m going to say, “If there’s another person who’s achieved what you want to achieve with what you have or less, then we know on 100% that you can do it too, and it is just something somebody said, and they are just one person. Right?”
So my coach said something that I’ll never forget. It was really funny, and it also inspired this episode a little bit. So she used to sell slicers in Walmart and she used to do shows with a lot of people and they just had these vegetables that they sliced up, and she had to throw away the vegetables. She was cleaning up after a show one day in Walmart and the vegetables were just props. She threw the vegetables away. And she had this customer who was watching her and he came up to her and he said, “How dare you throw away those vegetables? That is so wasteful.”
She just looked at him and she said, “Don’t shame me. I’m not available for it.” And total shock on the guy’s face. Okay. Totally changes the dynamic. He thinks he’s coming in and shaming her for making her feel bad for doing something wrong. And she’s like, “Don’t shame me. I’m not available for it.” And it blew my mind. I’m like, “We don’t have to be available for it.” We can just say, “No, not today.”
So be prepared that at any time in your life, whenever something happens like this, you can just decide that you’re not available for it. You can have the heads up and if it hasn’t happened to you already, it might happen to you in the future. Someone might just say something that’s easy to make you feel like crap, and you can just be like, “Yeah, I’m not available for that.”


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So here’s some things you can choose to think instead. They’re underestimating me because they don’t know me. Or something that helps some of my clients are, “That’s okay. I’ll just prove them wrong. Just watch me.” Or “They don’t know me. They’re not going to decide what’s possible for me.” You can say thanks in your head, but what you’re thinking in your truth is just like, “I don’t agree with this at all.”
You can be like, “You’re entitled to your opinion to the person. You can be like, “Yeah, I understand. That’s what you think, because you have these beliefs from your life and you think that for a reason, but I don’t agree. You can think you’re one person. I know lots of people who would disagree with you. Having people believe in you is nice, but it’s not a requirement. So you could think to yourself, I don’t need this person to believe I can do it because I know that I will.
You need to have a deep sense of knowing that you are in charge. Right? So sometimes people, they kind of know, so they’ll have this conversation and they’ll hear somebody talk to them like this and they’ll know that they’re not right. They’ll kind of be like, “Yeah, this doesn’t feel right. I don’t think this is true.” They might feel a little bit of anger towards the person for saying it. They might not know it’s true. And then they’re still going to be affected by it. So you just want to really intentionally choose your thoughts so that you do not have to waste time and energy on a comment somebody told you.
And this podcast is the permission to just say, I’m not available for this. I decide that’s a no. So questions to ask yourself to build the belief that they are wrong. Ask yourself, how is it true that they are totally wrong about this? What do I know that proves they’re wrong about this? In what ways are they mistaken? How do I want to think about this on purpose? How does me in the future with my ideal role, making my ideal pay, how does me in the future think of this now? What do I want to believe is true? What do I know in my heart and soul is true for me?
How is it true that this conversation here is for me to learn something about myself? What if this is just a test? What if this does happen to everyone and this is just a test? I love that. So why intentionally shifting your way of thinking is so empowering and how it’s going to change everything for you is because it puts you in control of your own feelings, which you can always choose control of. It allows you to control your emotional state, and when you can control your emotional state, you can control everything that you want to create.
It makes you stronger and shows you what you’re made of instead of the alternative, which we can view and shows you that they are right. Basically prove them right. And it always gives you power over your own trajectory, because the alternative is just allowing somebody to take you out of the game, knock you down, which is not my jam. So you can choose that alternative. You can allow it to happen. You can be like, “Okay, yeah. But I really do agree with him.” And I could be like, “Okay, but I’m just telling you that’s optional.”
So you will know that somebody doesn’t change your value. Right? Because of what someone says that doesn’t change all the things that were already true about you. It doesn’t dictate your capability or your future ability or your potential. Only you decide. Right? So if you decide that what someone else says is going to change things for you, then that’s the only reason it does. So what you need to be able to build this skill is awareness of when it happens. That’s the main thing. You need to have an awareness. When somebody says something, that’s a circumstance and you get to choose what you think and believe about what this person said.
And for that to really take root, you need to have a foundation of self-confidence. So you need to have a foundation of self-confidence in yourself so that you can feel really strongly about yourself, so that when that does happen, you’re not caught off guard, and you know, “Yeah. Sometimes this is part of the process.” And you need to have your own back. So however you respond in that moment,


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however you allow yourself to agree with the person or not, or whatever you do in that moment, you need to have your own back and have compassion for yourself, right?
Talk to yourself like, “It’s okay. We’re going to get through this. We know what to do. We know we get to decide what we think.” And the results that you create from that are, you’ll have a hyper awareness of your shame tolerance. So when you’re in a situation like this, you’re going to decide that your shame tolerance is non-existent. You can be like, “I’m just not available for it. No one can shame me”, which is not a thing I allow. You won’t be afraid to get on a call or have a conversation with anyone because you know that no matter what, it doesn’t matter because you know you, and you’re the one who always makes the best decisions for you. And you’ll know what to do if someone is speaking to you in that way.
You’ll know how you can feel. You’ll be able to identify this really quickly when you’re able to decide on purpose how you will handle it, right? And the biggest issue is normally we’re just caught off guard, right? So the first time it happens, we might have a reaction. The second time it happens, we might be like, “Okay, yeah. I know this is how it goes. Sometimes this is what I’m choosing.” So awareness, self-confidence, having your own back and you’ll be able to react and respond in a much more confident way.
And having your own back has really underrated because that’s what we need to do, right? And if you are able to have your own back, that means you’re going to talk to yourself like that supporter, right? The supporter that says, “Okay, that’s the facts. Let’s see what we need to do. Let’s get it done.” All right, my friends. Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of Shame and Tolerance. I will talk to you next week. Okay, bye.
If you’re resonating with what you’re hearing on the podcast, I want to tell you something. If we ever talk or work together or interact in any way, I will not even for a minute, buy into the story that you can get the job you want at the pay you want and deserve. I will not buy into the story that the recruiter said you needed to have more experience or that you were told that you needed to get another degree or certification before you could be considered, or that there are so many other great candidates out there that are more qualified who have already applied, or that you need to check with your accountant first or whatever the excuse you have that robs you from your power.
I will not buy it because what I know for sure is that if you’re not being valued and if you’re not being paid at the level you know, you can and deserve to be, there is a clear reason why. And it is a reason that is completely within your control. If you want to learn what’s really been holding you back so far, and you’re ready to get some help head on over to www.nataliefisher.ca/apply. I will be able to help you identify why you’ve been stuck so far and exactly what you need to do to move forward. And I will help you do this by showing you how to take control of your career, how to set the frame for what you want, instead of thinking that you have to be at the mercy of what you have. And as we all know, if you don’t believe that the job you want is available and that you can have it, you will always settle for the jobs you don’t want.
If you are ready to move out of that space and into a better situation, I am here to help you. I’m going to teach you exactly what to do with lots of examples. Head on over to www.nataliefisher.ca /apply. I’ll see you over there. And when you leave me an iTunes review and send me a screenshot of the review directly to my email at natalie@asknataliefisher.com, I will send you a free gift as a thank you. And this free gift, I usually sell it for $100. So it’s a $100 value and it contains 50 examples of behavioral interview questions.
So if you’ve ever stumbled, second guessed rambled in an interview, not sure exactly what to say, I have this free guide that’s going to give you so many examples that there’s no way you’ll be confused at the end. It’s helped thousands of people, land jobs, just from understanding so clearly what


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needs to be included. So if you don’t know how to tell a good story inside, you’ll find the exact words. If you don’t know what stories to tell, you’re going to see the components of a successful story in action, and 50 at that. You don’t think you have any good stories to share? Don’t worry. There’s 25 questions in there to ask yourself to pull the stories from your own brain. To get your hands on this, all you have to do is leave me an iTunes review and send it to me to my email, and I will respond with this guide. Thank you so much for listening and I will talk to you soon. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Get a 6-Figure Job You Love podcast. If you’re ready to dive deeper into your career mindset and start creating bigger, more impactful results in your career, join me at www.nataliefisher.ca/getstarted. I’ll see you over there.