When it comes to landing a premium job offer, you have to trust in the process and have the belief in yourself that things will work out. If you don’t feel worthy and deserving, it will take longer to come to you. Today’s guest joins me to share his experience of this.
Mike Ferry was continually over-preparing for interviews, and always trying to be the person he knew they wanted him to be rather than himself. He was in the job search for 18 months and as he noticed his self-esteem and worthiness decreasing, he knew he needed to make a change. He began working with me and landed a job a little over a month later. The best part? He didn’t even have to negotiate the salary.
Join us this week to hear why it all comes down to mindset and belief in yourself when it comes to landing the job. Mike shares his experience of believing a new thing about himself that he never thought possible, the main shift he made in his mindset and his advice to anybody in the same position as he was in.
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What You’ll Learn from this Episode:
- The beliefs Mike began to think to enable him to go into interviews more powerfully and confidently.
- How Mike learned to trust himself and his abilities and also that things were going to line up for him.
- The difference between doing it on his own versus with support.
- How Mike’s self-esteem was affected by continuous rejections and how he built it back up.
- Why you have to refresh your thoughts to get a different result.
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- Ep #74: How to Align Yourself to the Job Offer that Meets Your Standards: A Success Interview with Anneliesa McLean
- Awaken the Giant Within: How to Take Immediate Control of Your Mental, Emotional, Physical and Financial Life by Tony Robbins
- Mike Ferry LinkedIn
This is the Get a 6-Figure Job You Love podcast. Welcome back to episode 76: How to Let Go of Over-Preparing to Land Your Premium Offer, an interview with Michael Ferry.
Hey there. Welcome to the Get a 6-Figure Job You Love podcast. I’m your host, Natalie Fisher. I’m a certified career mindset coach who also happens to want to skip all the BS and get to what it really takes to create real results for you and your career.
On this podcast, you will create real mindset shifts that will lead to big results and big changes in your career and your income. No fluff here. If you want to get a six-figure job you love and create real concrete results in your industry and make a real impact, you’re in the right place. Are you ready? Let’s go.
All right. Welcome to today’s episode. We have another very special guest with us today, Mike ferry. He’s been a student of my work for a long time. He’s been following the podcast for a long time. I’m super excited for him to share today all his insights and his before and after. I’m going to let you go ahead and introduce yourself, Mike.
Yeah. Hey, well, I’m glad to be here. Again, my name is Mike Ferry. I have been customer-facing my entire career. I am in the customer success industry and really focused on being a coach to customers and coaching them through success, and found out that even coaches need coaching. So yeah, it’s come full circle for me and, yeah, glad to share.
Great. Yeah, I’m positive he’s going to add so much value today to our listeners because he’s really been a really good student of this work, like really applied it, really gone all in, and the results are going to speak to that. So why don’t you start by telling us a little bit about where you were when we started?
Yeah. So I had been in a role, and I’ve moved through various roles for various reasons, and had considered your coaching before I got my last role. But then I got the role and then decided not to get the coaching. Then as I moved through the role, I realized that I was not in the right place. There were just a lot of things happening that I hadn’t anticipated.
And so, when that decision came that I needed to move on, I thought, “Well, what am I going to do?” Because I’ve always felt like the interview process has been quite a struggle. And, of course, that’s what I envisioned. I thought, “Here we go again.”
Having listened to the podcast and watched the YouTube videos, I thought there was still something missing. I said, “I’ve got to jump in.” So as soon as I made the decision to change companies, I sent that email and got connected.
Amazing. Yeah. And so, I wanted to dive into a little bit about where you were, like where your head was when we started and your … Because you were successful in the process. It was just not a pleasant process for you. You were really making it harder than it needed to be on yourself, because you were preparing a lot. Can you talk a little bit about where your mindset was when we first started and how you were over-preparing a lot and just doing a lot of those things over and over?
That’s one of my strength and weaknesses questions. One of my weaknesses is getting so deep into details that … The forest for the trees, right? Losing view of the bigger picture. So I was preparing. I had written answers and would continue to read these answers. It just seemed overwhelming, but it was also very frustrating because I wasn’t making it through interviews, and I realized that something needed to change.
But because that happened all the time, I began to really develop … After every interview, my self-esteem just dropped and dropped and dropped. I was even listening to the podcast and trying to get my head right. It just didn’t seem to click, and I could not figure out what it was that I needed to do. The
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thought of not being the person that I knew that they wanted me to be and me not being able to show up that way was an exercise in futility, which I discovered after the coaching.
Yeah. And so, you’re a perfect example of so many people out there who are preparing, preparing, taking copious notes. You were more prepared than anybody. You’ve been on a lot of interviews. You knew. I was like, “You already have a PhD in interviews.” That’s not the actual problem.
So can you identify, now that you’re on the other side and you’re with a company now that you really vibe with, the interview went really well … We’ll get a little bit more into that later … what do you think the main shift was that you had to make from going from that frantic over-preparing energy to being able to show up and just be you?
I think we covered this in the coaching, but I had to learn to trust myself, because it was one thing to write at all these answers. I think you remember, I might have sent you a picture, is that I had a closet door in front of me and I had written bullet points, the answers to every possible question that could be answered.
So when I was doing my virtual interviews, I would set the computer in a way that if I was looking up at the answer, they didn’t know that I was actually looking at bullet points. Of course that’s so difficult.
But it was really being able to trust myself and answer the questions in a way that was authentic for me, and with real energy that wasn’t energy coming from fear and doubt, but just answering the questions in a way that … Like I was having a conversation with a friend, like we’re having a conversation right now.
Exactly, and because you knew the answers, right?
If we look at your career, and you’ve been successful in your career, you do know what you’re doing. That’s the thing.
I thought so. That’s why I thought I needed to write them down on bullet points, just to make sure that I’ve covered everything. Of course, then I became robotic and then I began doubting what it was that I knew that I knew, but then I began to not believe it.
Yeah, exactly. I think you said it earlier, when you said trying to be the person that you knew they wanted you to be, instead of focusing on who you actually are, because that’s how you get the right fit. That’s how you interview most authentically.
So what has changed since we started working together until now?
I think that I am … Not only professionally, but I think even in my personal life, I’m much more aware of how I think, how I’m showing up in any situation. Fortunately, now I don’t have to interview, even though we’re doing an interview, but this is much more fun.
But being much more aware of what I’m thinking in the moment and actually what that means in the big scheme of things, because I’ve learned that not all thoughts actually serve you. We can become overwhelmed with all of those. I find that I do that much less. In some cases, I can go a day or two without even really being impacted by any of those negative thoughts.
Yeah. Talk about the work that you did, because I know that you’ll have an opportunity to get coached, and then you’ll take that away and you’ll do your own work. So I really want to get a sense, because you’re one of the prime examples of success with the coaching, with the work.
This is available to anybody. But I want you to talk about how you applied it in a way that made you successful, like in order for you to make these changes in your life. I know that I made some suggestions
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and stuff, but the work after the coaching is up to you. So do you have any practices that you made a habit of or things that you specifically did differently, things you told yourself that really helped you to apply the work and make it successful?
Yes. Yes. Well, once I understood some of the … I don’t know if you would call these more advanced techniques, but a deeper self-awareness. I became much more aware of those moments when doubt would creep in or something would affect the way I felt about myself. I caught myself when I did that.
But it’s not just in interviews. I’m sure that everybody experiences this. Immediately when you wake up, where is your head at? In some cases, I was less disciplined than others, but in some mornings I would get up and I would have three or four things that I would repeat over and over and go, “Okay, now this is how I’m going to start my day,” and I would go into my day that way.
Anytime something shifted in my mind, I became aware of it. I knew that I wanted to be in a different place, so I made sure that I got back to that place. The more I did it, the easier it’s become.
Yeah. And so, I think what you’re saying is you were just very intentional about catching yourself and reframing it and making that a habit, instead of the old habits that you were having before, which weren’t creating the results you wanted.
That’s exactly right. That’s why you were the coach.
Well, I wanted them to hear it in your words, but basically that’s what I hear you saying, which is why it makes perfect sense that you have the success that you have now.
That’s right. Yeah, I think the intention … That’s a perfect way of describing it. When I first started, it was minute-by-minute. Then I could remain in that place. Then, over time, I stayed in that place because I was better able to manage where I was. Then my confidence started increasing, and it has become much easier.
Yeah, yeah. Exactly how it’s supposed to work, right?
So what was the shifting belief in deciding the … Like when you were going into interviews, did you have a specific belief that you think you shifted, like a thought or something that you used to help you move into those interviews more powerfully and more confidently than before?
Yeah. Well, there’s two that come to mind. One is that I’m enough and the other is I am worthy. Of course, there’s so much to break down. I mean they seem like simple words. But going into interviews and thinking I have to be enough was just coming from a place of disbelief or unbelief in yourself. It’s a terrible place to start.
I realized, look, I’m talking to peers for the most part, people that I’m going to be working with. Just like them, I’m capable and I can do the job. I’m not trying to fake it. I am just being who I am and sharing my experience and really focus on this is how I can help you. Either it fits or it doesn’t fit, and I’m not going to take it personally.
Yeah. Yeah. Nailed it. Exactly. So how do you think your brain is different? If we were to take a snapshot of your brain before and the snapshot of your brain now, how do you think it operates in a different manner?
I’m trying to think of a phrase that I’ve heard in the past. You hear change your thoughts, change your life, right? [crosstalk 00:12:33].
Yes. Yeah. A lot of cliches like that. Yeah.
A lot of cliches. But what does that mean? I’ve spent a lot of time in personal development and understood that our thoughts don’t define us, but I didn’t know how to execute on that. What does that
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mean? And so, now anytime that I have a thought, I realize that that thought could be just a reaction. It could be something from my past. I can take that thought, I can do whatever it is that I want with it.
Something that we talked a lot about is attaching meaning to that thought. Now even when I talk to other people and I hear them talking about, “Well, I feel this way or that way about something,” the first thing that goes through my mind is, oh, you’ve attached this meaning to it. Now this is how this is the result or this is how you’re behaving now because you’ve attached this meaning to it. I do it a different way because I have a completely different meaning of what that thought means.
Yes. You can pick that meaning, and we can all pick those meanings, and we don’t realize it. So, yeah, really good to articulate it that way.
And so, as someone who spends a lot of time, like you said, in personal development, you’ve read a lot of books, you’ve taken a lot of lessons from a lot of personal development gurus, and you’ve been in the work for a long time, how was the experience different from reading that stuff on your own, listening on your own, to actually having me look at your brain and be like, directly, this is what’s happening? What was the difference between that experience, doing it on your own and then having support?
And having support. Well, one of the things … And it’s interesting because I think this book has something like 500 pages, Awaken the Giant by Tony Robbins. I remember there’s a middle chapter in there called Ask Questions. I remember the first time that I read the book, I thought, “Oh, that just means I need to go ask other people questions.”
I went through this phase where I was just asking questions. I go, “Wow. I can get people to talk.” But I didn’t realize what it is that I need to be asking questions internally. What does that mean? How is this impacting me? How am I responding? Even on a bigger level, going through all the podcasts and listening to all of that, I thought there’s a lot of great information there.
But getting the coaching actually helped me rearrange everything in the right, because I’m very much a layer kind of person. I need to have a foundational layer. Then I layer it on top until I get a whole picture. Rearranging all of that information that I had absorbed from the books and from all the podcasts helped me just align everything. That’s when the epiphany started because everything started connecting.
It was incredible. I’m even feeling it now just talking about it. It’s just incredible. And it helps you validate certain things that you probably know but maybe aren’t sure of. Then it also helps bring out things and makes them okay when you don’t know, if that makes sense.
Yeah, absolutely. It’s like having that internal reflection and then being able to take it to the next level, because you’re right, the podcast and that stuff is great foundation, but it’s not necessarily enough if it’s still not getting you the results. So it’s like taking it to the next level.
I feel the same way about coaching as well. You can consume a lot of information, but then when you actually get coached, it’s like watching someone get a massage versus getting a massage yourself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It helps you internalize it because you’re having a dialogue with somebody and you’re able to actually … Rather than just yourself and contemplating, “Oh, I just heard that. Okay. How does that fit in my life?” and maybe there’s an answer, but when you’re having a dialogue with someone, it opens up so many more doors to understanding a single issue and looking at it from a 360 view.
Yeah, exactly. Also, I find that it’s more individualized. It’s for you. When you’re being coached, it is specifically for you and your brain and your thoughts.
When you’re listening to something or reading something, it’s written for hundreds of thousands of people and they’re all going to interpret that in a different way, which is why one person can read Think and Grow Rich and not get rich and somebody else can have different results from it. It’s because
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they’re interpreting that information in a different way. But when you’re getting coached, it’s specifically for you. So really well said. Yeah.
So how do feel … Let’s talk about the interview now, the successful interview. How do you feel you went into that and what were your thoughts during that interview that made you show up the way that you feel really proud of?
Well, I was at ease in terms of where I was when I went into the interview, because, again, I knew that I was enough, that I was worthy, I was competent, and that I bring value. It was really being able to connect to that value, being excited about the value, and being able to articulate that value and helping them see that I can contribute to the mission.
But I think the other thing is that it created a natural conversation. It wasn’t robotic. I know that we talked about this and using the STAR method and situation, task, action, result, and whether you’re reading bullet points and then trying to remember, “Did I just talk about the situation? Now I got to talk about the task. What’s the action?” It’s just so unnatural. I think being able to have that natural conversation is what really connected me.
I will tell you, one thing that I realized even in interviews before this, this one where I got the offer, I was walking away from those interviews and I realized, hey, I just don’t know if we’re actually connected, just maybe culturally or personality-wise. I didn’t take that because I was learning and better understanding what it is that I wanted.
When I interviewed, the first person I interviewed with for the company that I’m with now, I remember we were having a dialogue. It was going really well. But sometimes in interviews, I’m not really looking for validation. And so, it was going really well.
And so, I asked about what the next steps were and who I would talk to. Apparently, that was interpreted by the person I was interviewing with, who said, “Hey, you want to talk to the hiring manager?” I said, “Yeah, I do.” He goes, “I can make that happen,” and right there and then it just moved forward, moved forward from there. A lot of it had to do with personality. It just connected.
Yeah. Yeah. I just want people to listen to how you’re talking too, because the difference between if it’s an not a fit, it’s not a fit. It doesn’t matter. You were really good at getting interviews. You had a lot of interviews lined up. You knew how to get those opportunities. That wasn’t the problem for you. The problem was getting into that energy in the interview that really was going to connect with the right company.
Yeah, just wanted people to listen just to … Because how you talk about it is really a testament to your growth. People didn’t get to meet you before, but that’s where people are right now is in that before, where they’re over-preparing and they’re stressing and they’re freaking out. They’re like, “I need to say the right thing and I need to do it right.”
Just the way that you’re talking about it now is so relaxed. You’re like, “Yeah, and this is how I did it. This is how I would … ” You already knew how you were going to respond if it wasn’t a fit, which just calms you down right away.
Yeah. Yeah. It’s just an acceptance. It goes, “Ah. Oh, I saw this. If it moves forward, great. If it doesn’t, then I can see why, and that’s okay.”
I think it’s having your focus on the end result, being like, “It doesn’t matter if it’s this or something better. It’s going to come through no matter what,” like having that it’s done energy coming from you.
I also wanted to talk about a bit, because a lot of people do this, is go into that worst case scenario. Like, “Oh my god, what if I don’t get this? What if it doesn’t work out? What if I can’t?” That’s something that
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everybody struggles with. This is something that we were able to turn around. I’d love for you to talk about how you were able to do that, like how you were able to get into that trusting energy of not just trusting yourself, but the trusting that things were going to line up for you.
Yeah. That’s interesting that that’s the next question, because as I was saying that, I was recalling as I was listening to some other interviews where people would say that, and I was thinking, “No, you don’t understand. I’ve got to get this job.” I have been in situations where it’s taken 18 months to get a job. It was under 50 days. So what is that? Just over a month and a half, six weeks, to get this role.
I remember that we talked about this because I was like, “Well, what if I run out of money and now I got to talk to my wife about what’s next. What are we going to do about the house? I don’t know what I’m going to do.”
The whole idea is, well, what kind of energy … When you go into the interview, if you’re going in with that kind of energy, then how are you actually going to talk about your value, the things that you already know that you can do, that you have done that offer value to this company, and present that in a way that they say, “Hey, the energy of this person feels good. It’s going to be great for the team. It’s going to get the job done.” You cannot go into these interviews focused on if I don’t get this, my entire life is going to crumble.
You have to trust. There’s a trust factor and it is that trust fall, that you’re going to just fall back and it’s going to be okay. I know now, and I’m sure there are folks probably listening, that this is the toughest road that they’ve been on in quite a while. But I’m telling you, it is all about that trust. If you change your energy, you tap in to the value that you have and you become more authentic and it becomes more natural, you’re going to have more success in your interviews.
Thank you for saying that. I really appreciate you sharing that because I know it’s such a common thing. I get messages like that all the time. They’re like, “Oh yeah, it’s easy for you to say it, but I have bills to pay,” kind of thing.
It’s like trying to get people to understand that, yes, you do, and that could be the circumstance. But coming from that place is never going to help you actually get the results. It’ll never actually get you to that point, because exactly what you said. It’s like you can’t be in that energy of value and service when you’re in the energy of like, “Oh my god. What happens to me if this doesn’t work?”
I want to use the example of like … Because everybody … Like you at the same situation as a hiring manager would feel the same coming from a candidate. It’s like if you go to buy a car, for example … And I thought of this example the other day. If you go to buy a car and you can tell that the car salesman is just focused on their commission. They’re just going to tell you whatever you want to hear so that you’ll buy the car. It doesn’t matter if the car’s burning oil or if it’s got a problem. They’re not going to tell you about it because they obviously just want their commission. They’re coming from that sleazy energy.
You can tell the difference between that person and somebody who’s really wanting the best for you. So the difference is they’re going to ask you a bunch of questions. They’re going to find out about you. They’re going to be curious. They’re going to know what you want, what will serve you best. Then they’re going to try to find the right fit for you. The energy is so different.
And so, to those people who are thinking like, “Oh my god,” but like, “I need to get out of where I am or I’m going to run out of money,” or whatever it is, those circumstances may be true, but it’s still not going to get anybody to buy a car from a sleazy salesman any more than it would if you’re really just coming from service. So it’s like counterintuitive, but the coming from the service and the value is going to get you that result faster.
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So really well put. Thanks for sharing that with us because, yeah, a lot of people are in that exact same situation. It’s hard to get that point across because, like you said, trusting is courageous. It’s courageous to have to trust, but it’s also just the longer road not to.
That’s right. When it comes to coaching, making that shift to be able to actually trust in your mind and believe it, that I think … Going back to one of the earlier questions, I think that is the huge shift in understanding how to do that was the benefit of coaching versus listening to the podcast. Super valuable.
Don’t get me wrong. You know that I listen to all the podcasts and watch all the YouTube videos and even read a bunch of personal development books and all of that sort of thing. But to come from a place where you believe something that you can’t imagine believing is huge. I think we just discovered the major shift. That’s it right there.
Believing a new thing that you didn’t [crosstalk 00:27:00].
Believing a thing in yourself, about yourself, that you never thought was possible, even conceptually.
Yeah, and because you were basing it on the past, which is what all humans do. Most of the time we’re always basing, “Well, I haven’t done it that fast before. I haven’t done … ” So we think, “Oh, well, I haven’t done it in the past, so it’s going to be the same or just as hard in the future.” The shift in belief is, no, it actually doesn’t have to be.
Yeah, that’s right.
Yeah. Yeah. So great. That’s a really good key shift because that is what coaching is all about is up-leveling your beliefs and changing them and figuring out what it is, the beliefs that are blocking you and allowing you to move forward with these. So let’s talk about your new role for a minute. How do you feel about your new role so far and how long have you been in it?
Yeah, so I have been … What is … Let’s see, last week was Thanksgiving. So I had a great short week, two and a half days, last week and this is actually my first week. So yesterday, I happened to be doing my workout in my basement and was actually doing yoga. And so, very quiet and calming and all of that. As I was in one of the poses and standing up, I was thinking about the role and I thought, “Wow.”
I thought about some interactions that I had had yesterday and I thought, “Wow.” I wanted a person that I could talk about this with. I have that. I wanted peers that I could have dialogue with, where we were connecting and we were really successful in our interactions and fed off of each other’s energy and working really well together. I got that. And doing and talking about what it is that I love to do, and I got that. Of course, a huge compensation jump. I said-
… “I have everything that I need.” So it’s really been incredible. Yeah. I think maybe I was thinking about it as we were going to come and chat. I thought, “Wow. I’m really at a place that I wanted to be.”
Yeah. It’s fantastic. I was going to ask you, did you … Reflecting back, you’re like, “This is everything. I wanted to check all my boxes.” I don’t remember if we coached on this or not, but did you set an intention for what you wanted before? Because I mean past experience will tell you what you don’t want so that you can know what you do want. But I’m not sure if you purposely set that intention or not. Do you remember?
I don’t know if it was … You mentioned intentional. I don’t know if it was intentional, but there was some sort of … Was it unconscious/subconscious focus on that? Because during other interviews, even with my previous company, I remember in the interview, I thought when I interviewed, the recruiter came back and said, “They loved you.”
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But I recall that two of my peers looked like they were doing work on their computer during our interview. I didn’t give it much thought because when the recruiter came back and said, “They loved you,” I’m like, “Oh, okay. That’s great.” But as I reflect back on other interviews, there were always little maybe tells, I guess, kind of like in poker that somebody has a tell.
Yeah. It’s like a little mini red flag.
A mini red flag. I reflected on the interview process with this company and I thought I never saw anything that gave me any concern.
Yeah. So you did have the intention. We didn’t set it officially, but you knew what you wanted. Also being discerning about that. That’s one thing I talk about a lot is you want to be discerning about what works for you. Yes, sometimes people can be rude in interviews. It’s been heard of.
If that’s the case, you want to take note because those are the people you’re going to be working with. If that’s their first impression, that matters to you just as much.
Yeah. So good for you because you’re looking out for that stuff and you’re paying attention to that stuff as well, not just, “Oh, they like me,” but like, “Do I like them?”
Yeah, [crosstalk 00:31:15] what that means. I think during the offer phase, I think … Yeah, I wasn’t employed yet. But during the offer phase, I asked the director or the VP that I report to, I said, “Just out of curiosity, what was the compelling reason that you decided to offer the job to me?”
Yeah. She went through some things and thought that, “You’d be a good fit here and then we’re doing this. And so, I guess I had conveyed all of those things in the interview, but made that connection before I signed that offer. All those check boxes were checked.
Yeah, and that’s great. Something people don’t do is ask, “What made you hire me?” It’s a good information to know, right?
Well, I’ve been getting so much feedback on these interviews that I wasn’t doing well at. I thought, well, why not get some feedback on something positive?
On something that worked, yeah.
Yeah. That’s right.
Yeah. I have that inside my program. It’s called the success evaluation. It’s like we ignore that part so quickly. We ignore what made us successful and just move to the next thing. That’s why it’s difficult to recreate success, which leads into my next question of how do you see the job search now versus how you saw it before? If you had to enter it again, or if you chose to, how would you be seeing it differently?
Well, it’s not like I have to go back in and then begin to prepare those stories, reread those stories, and then be formulaic in terms of my answers and all of that. It’s like, well, I’m getting into a process now where I’m going to have conversations with peers and maybe people that I might report to that are human just like me. We’re going to have a conversation. If we’re a fit for each other, that’s great. If we’re not, well, we’re not.
A lot of that baggage of the whole process is completely removed for me. It’s funny. Though I guess we all can probably agree we’d rather not be in the interview process. We’d rather be happy in our roles. But I got my role in such a short amount of time that I thought, “Wow. I don’t have a chance to continue
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to keep using all of these things that I’ve learned because I’m not interviewing anymore.” So it’s a love-hate thing, I guess.
Yeah. Well, I saw you just open up a lot more during the process and just enjoyed a little bit more than you did before, because we all know that practicing and rehearsing over and over again isn’t fun.
Yeah. You wonder then as soon as you begin the interview and sit in front of your computer, you’re like, “Okay, do I have all the answers ready? Ugh.”
Yeah. So much pressure, right? It’s such a heavy feeling to have.
Such a heavy feeling. Yeah, those are just folks on the other end. What’s interesting is that two of the peers that I’m working with … Since I’m new, I’m not interviewing anyone, but they were having a conversation about someone.
We were on a Zoom call together about something that we were doing work-wise and the other two people was going, “Hey, Bill. What did you think of the person … ,” whatever their name was, “the person we interviewed with?” “Oh yeah. I liked him. I liked him. He’s got a lot of this and a lot of that. I think he would probably be good for the role.” But the first thing out of his mouth was, “Oh, I like him.”
You know what? There’s something to be said about that know, like, and trust and being authentic and being real, because that happened … I think it happened yesterday and I thought, “Oh, what’s the answer going to be” because now I’m on the other side.
Yeah. Now you get an insight into those conversations. Yeah.
That was the first thing that he said, “I like him.”
Yeah, and that needs to be the first thing that they feel, because they hire based on emotion. No matter what people say, they are human and that’s what ends up happening is they have to have that feeling of, “Yeah, I liked him,” or, “I liked her.” They have to have that first. That’s hard to have when you’re robotic because they’re not seeing who you are.
Yeah, [inaudible 00:35:37].
So well said. Yeah. And so, the next question I had was, like you mentioned in the beginning, you are a coach to customers and you coach in your own role and are familiar with coaching. What will you take from this experience moving forward to help strengthen your own coaching skills? Because I know you were already starting to do that a bit.
I think that being much more sensitive to other people’s thought processes. I work with change management, but can only really impact change individually. I’m not really someone who’s going into the high-level stakeholders and saying, “Here we’re going to input … ” I’m not an efficiency expert where I’m implementing an entire enterprise change management program. Usually there’s one person that is responsible for certain metrics or goals. If they’re not being accomplished, then I have to have a conversation with them about how other people are using our solutions.
So being real sensitive to how other people are thinking about those things that we’re doing and are we connecting the dots is much easier for me. I think just being more open and more aware that other people are probably going through many of the same things that I’ve gone through in terms of their own beliefs, because we’re ultimately … Though I’m focused on software, it ultimately comes down to the people. So being aware that they’re going through their issues and struggles and just being more sensitive to that.
Yeah. You can’t go wrong when you come from compassion and curiosity, which I think is basically what you’re saying, that you now have a higher awareness of in other people, [crosstalk 00:37:29].
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Yeah. I can’t believe I forgot those two things, because we did talk about that in terms of more interpersonal relationships, and even in interviewing, thinking about, “I wonder why that person is asking me that question. I think I’m curious about that.” Even in personal life, coming from a place of being either sensitive and compassionate or being curious about it and wondering about it, rather than taking it personally or some direct attack or definition of who I am.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So not being defensive, but just being compassionate and looking at what’s going on with them first.
Yeah. No, you got it. That’s basically what you said. I was just summing it up.
So yeah. And so, you mentioned … Do you feel comfortable talking about your salary?
In terms of? So how-
You mentioned you got a salary bump.
Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, the package itself was $40,000 more than where I came from.
Yeah. This is a reflection of how much more valuable you see yourself as. It gives me chills. I’m like this is so incredible because you now saw your own value, your own worthiness, your own capability. You were able to see that and then other people could now see it. The right person could now see it.
It absolutely had to be, because when I got the offer, I looked at it and I went, “Oh my goodness. I don’t even need to negotiate this.” It was a real surprise. But I did go and negotiate, I don’t know, I think it was like $5,000 or $7,000. I remember the recruiter saying, “Well, that’s not a big ask.” Then I thought, “Well, maybe I should have negotiated more,” that feeling.
But it came through, and you’re exactly right, it was like this was the place that I wanted to be and this is what’s more reflective of the value that I bring.
Yeah, and just touching back on what you said earlier about feeling worthy and feeling deserving of it. It’s such a huge thing. One of my past podcast guests, Anna Lisa, mentioned the same thing. It makes so much sense because it seems so simple, but it’s like if you don’t feel worthy and deserving of it, it’s more difficult for it to come to you, which is why it can take so long.
But if you can accept that you’re worthy and deserving of it, and practice everything that you practiced during the work, it comes quickly, like in a month and a half. That’s what you have to align to. So amazing, amazing work.
Also, making those decisions beforehand. We talk about that in my program about you want to know, when you get that offer, are you going to negotiate it or not? Is it going to just be your top number? Are you going to choose to negotiate? Like how those decisions are made beforehand. But such a joy to have to have that offer come in and you’d be pleasantly surprised and not need to negotiate. That happens a lot, especially when you get aligned with your own value, like you were just saying. So fantastic.
Yeah, it was a great feeling. It was another sign, I thought, “Okay. Things are aligning,” and that’s how I wanted to go into my first day, feeling like everything was aligned. I got my answers of why they hired
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me. I had a great experience with the peers. The package was great. All I had to do was just focus on the work and learning the product.
Incredible, incredible. And so, how do you foresee your life being different now versus before, financially and your day-to-day feeling as you go through your workday?
Yeah. Well, I think, again, I’m much more self-aware of how I’m operating and the potential of how I’m showing up and what those consequences might be. Am I bringing everybody along with me or am I in some other place?
I think in terms of where I’m at now, both professionally and personally, I’m able to really just focus on next steps. I’m always about moving forward. I’m not stagnating. I’m not static. Now I can have conversations about what’s tomorrow? What’s next month? What’s a year from now? That’s a good place to be, knowing that everything is [crosstalk 00:42:11].
Yeah, because you’re no longer struggling. You no longer feel like you’re having to work so hard for something, because you unlocked those key things. You had mentioned you were in the job search for 18 months in the past, in a past life. A lot of people, they have this idea that it has to take so long. Then they have really quick mindset shifts and are able do it really fast. Why do you think that is? I mean I know we talked about the belief and everything, but if there’s anything more you have to say about that, I’d love to hear it.
The mindset shift that impacts-
The speed of it.
… the speed of it. I think the more certain you get and the more confident that you get in your own mind, you’re going to be much more confident in the interactions. I think when you put aside the … When that first interviewer comes on, you’re looking on the screen, you’re going, “Okay, whatever the question is, do I have the right answer?” but you’re not thinking about all of that. The dialogue that you’re having with individuals, and I said this, is so much more real and authentic that when they leave the interview, they see you for you and not somebody that is performing.
Exactly. Yeah, not someone who’s trying.
Yeah, who’s just trying. That’s where that trust comes in. Trust in who you are. I know just from … And you know from coaching, from my background, trusting myself was very difficult. I just said, “I’m just going to trust myself because I am worthy. I am capable. So let’s just talk about it.”
Yeah. I love that you said that because I think a lot of people feel the same way. They feel it’s very difficult to trust themselves because they think they’ve made poor decisions in the past, or they make these decisions, mean something about them. I think the key for me, because I went through all this work too, was like it didn’t work before not to. So it’s like let’s try this. Let’s try this trust thing. Let’s lean into it. Let’s see how it goes.
I think that’s exactly what you did. You kept coming back and asking questions and just clarifying so that you could, because you really had that desire to trust yourself. And so, I think that not just saying trusting yourself is easy to say, but it takes courage. It takes steps. It takes a little bit of work for some people because, yeah, you’re going to look at your past and be like, “Well, I don’t have any reason to trust myself.”
I think it’s all interpreted in how we look at those decisions, because I believe all the decisions you made were not wrong. They were not right. They got you where you are. So that’s another podcast about decision-making.
But, yeah, the trusting yourself and trusting everything is going to happen in your favor is just so huge.
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One of the things that that reminded me of is that once we started the coaching program … And I started implementing some things. When I got to some epiphanies and I said, “Okay, I’m going to implement this. I’m going to show up like this and I’m going to have this kind of belief,” there were some interviews I didn’t move forward in, or maybe I was at the second round or something, and I didn’t necessarily move forward in.
I think we talked about that. One of the things that you made me think about was the only thing that you need to judge is how you graded your performance. I began thinking about that. Once I started doing that, I went, “If I looked at the situation, maybe there wasn’t a fit here, or maybe there was something that, for whatever reason, we didn’t connect on. But my performance was a good performance. I felt good about that,” or maybe there were some areas that I can improve on.
A lot of times I would go right there and go, “Wow, I need to improve on that and improve on that.” But then I began to think more about how was my performance overall? Was I happy with it? I started to realize, hey, my performance, I did really well. I think it was understanding how I was doing that well that got me to where I’m at now.
Exactly, yeah. Changing the game, changing the scorecard for yourself. It’s like did you show up as who you are? Did you tell the truth? Did you share from your heart? Inside the program, I have like how you want to actually grade your interviews versus did they like me? Did they give me the job? Because if you grade everything on that, then you’re always going to be at the mercy of things that are not in your control. You’re always going to feel terrible.
So it doesn’t … Yeah. It’s like dating. It’s like we go on a date with someone and we’re not going to be like, “Oh, I need to change all these things about myself so that the next person will like me better.” That person might be different and they would like different things. It’s like so you have to show up as you every single time until the right match is like, “Oh, where have you been? Here’s everything you want. Come work for us.”
So you’re the common denominator and you have to control that, and that’s what your only job is. So it was really beautiful to see you grasp that so well and continue to go through the process. So if you were to look back and do something differently to secure your new role sooner, what do you think you would do?
I would have gotten coaching sooner. But it all comes down to mindset. I would’ve just trusted and I would’ve spent more time realizing that my focus on all of the negative is what was pulling me down and not congratulating myself, even for things that I did in the past, and realized that those thoughts that were reminding me of all the negative weren’t serving me and to move past those.
But it did. It took the coaching and bringing all the things that I had read, and podcasts and video that I had watched, to help make that happen and for me to internalize it and make it real.
Yeah, to bring it all together and bring it up to where you needed it to be. Do you have any advice or words for anybody out there right now who is wanting to do what you did?
Moving forward is … That feeling that you’re probably experiencing is not necessarily coming from confusion or anything like that, because you know where you want to be. It’s coming from fear. You have to step through the fear. If what you’re doing now is not allowing you to step through the fear, then you need a partner to help you walk down that path to get you on the other side. I would recommend doing that so that you can look in the rear-view mirror and see fear behind you, or at least
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when you experience it, know how to manage it in a way that allows you to be the best version of yourself.
Yeah. It doesn’t hold you back and keep you in that same place. Yeah. Yeah. It’s possible for anybody. So thank you for saying that. It’s totally true. It’s true for me. It’s true for you. It’s true for anybody. Anybody who can get an outside perspective, a different perspective, a new way of looking at things, a way to up-level your beliefs, that’s how you move forward. That’s how you change. It’s like people don’t know that they have to refresh their thoughts to get a different result, and they don’t know that those thoughts are available to them a lot of the time.
So that’s what this podcast is about. It’s what interviewing the successful students is about. So that people can have an awareness of that. Then they can come and apply it and do it for themselves if they choose.
So thank you so much for the interview. If people wanted to connect with you, where … Because I know because I know you’re very active on LinkedIn. You’re always helping people out. I see you commenting and sending people resources and helping them. Where can they find you?
Well, I am on LinkedIn. That’s primarily the main way to get a hold of me. But I’m certainly open to having a brief chat if somebody ever wanted to chat. I’d be happy to do that.
Thanks, Mike. Yeah. I mentioned it just because I know that you’ve talked about helping people. You’re a very generous person. You really want to help other people. And so, if this is an opportunity for you to do that and people want to reach out to you, then I’ll put your LinkedIn link in the show notes and they can connect with you.
Sure. If they reach out to you and you want to chat for a few minutes, I’m happy for you to make that connection.
Awesome. Thank you. I will do that. Those are all of my questions. Was there anything else that you wanted to say?
No, that’s great. It’s just been an incredible journey and really, really amazing. I mean it’s just brought all of the effort that I’ve put in over the years down into … What did we have? Three months coaching. It’s just been incredible and I can’t thank you enough.
Well, Mike, thank you for being such an amazing client, applying everything, doing all the work, bringing it all together. It was all you. So you’re an example of what’s possible. Thank you for sharing it with everybody here today.
So pleased to be able to do it.
Okay, Mike, I will talk to you soon. If you are looking to land your first or next six-figure role, this is the only investment you’ll ever need to make for your career. It’s called the Six- Figure Curriculum.
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